6 ms·

I feel like 80% of my frustration with USB C would be gone if I could know, for any device, "is this charging as fast as it could"? Ideally that's a question th

I feel like 80% of my frustration with USB C would be gone if I could know, for any device, "is this charging as fast as it could"? Ideally that's a question that'd be answered by the software UI, but shockingly none of the many USB C devices I own displays that information. I have a USB C cable that has a small screen built in to the connector that will display wattage, it's a really nifty product (search Amazon, there are a bunch of random brands selling them). I hope to see more screens/visual indicators built in to cables to communicate what's happening over the connection, that'd help with the problems you've outlined to an extent.

progrus 5y ago
You plug off-brand cables from Amazon that you know contain microcontrollers into your USB-C port? Brave!
- gumby 5y ago
  Essentially all* USB C cables have microcontrollers in them to negotiate power delivery and what protocols are supported. * it’s possible to have a USB C cable that’s really entirely passive, but in that case it falls back to USB 2 speed and the default USB power, as if it had a Type A connector on it.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    No, this is incorrect. Most USB-C cables don't contain any parts more complicated than a resistor (used for cable direction detection). PD negotiation is handled by a microcontroller in the charger, not the cable. The only USB C cables with any sort of active components in them are electronically marked cables for >60W charging, and USB4 ("Thunderbolt") cables with active transceivers. Everything else is purely passive.
    - gumby 5y ago
      When I said "entirely passive" I did mean use of resistors, which are a passive component. Electrically every USB C cable is completely backward compatible. But I am surprised by your assertion. I check every type c cable that comes into the house and have not seen one without any kind of e-marker for many years (admittedly I buy all the cables in the household, and we never had any old android phones). As I mentioned, you can't get any more than baseline power delivery over a cable that isn't e-marked with its current capacity -- this check (SPO prime) is the first thing you have to do BEFORE talking to the remote device. Also any modes from 3.1 gen1 or beyond (TBH I think it's 3.0 or beyond but I don't have the spec in front of me) need a e-marker chip to tell the endpoints what the cable is capable of. Unfortunately OSes are poor at reporting this info. I do wish that someone would make a type c charging cable that supports PD 2.0, 1.2 -- love those USB version names -- or even 3.0, but allowed no data transmission between endpoints. Basically a USB C condom cable. Haven't seen any of them.
      - Melatonic 5y ago
        I heard you can manually disable certain pins to do this. Or there may be cables designed for digital forensics that already have this done.
        gumby 5y ago
        I'm not sure how that could work in USB C. You can definitely do it for USB A, and a lot of cheap charger cables do this to reduce BOM. But with USB C, the data lines are used for configuration negotiation (including PD) before being turned over to client data transmission.
        duskwuff 5y ago
        > But with USB C, the data lines are used for configuration negotiation (including PD) PD negotiation takes place over the CC pins, not over the USB data pins. This, and much more, is explained in TI's document "A primer on USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery Applications and Requirements": https://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy109a/slyy109a.pdf https://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy109a/slyy109a.pdf
- eternityforest 5y ago
  In theory, Android should be protecting us from most attacks anyway, as public charge stations are common and people are gonna use them.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
I have one too. It’s super useful to see what voltage and current the device is using.
ryanbrunner 5y ago
My android does this and it's definitely a huge plus.
thomascgalvin 5y ago
I have two USB-C ports in the armrest of my car. One connects to Android Auto and charges my phone to full in about an hour. The other doesn't connect to Android Auto, and charges my phone to full in about six hours. I've owned the car for three years, and didn't notice the charging difference until a few months ago.
- vinhboy 5y ago
  Oh weird, I've never heard of this. On my Bolt, the UsbA has Android auto, but no UsbC for fast charging. I bought a UsbC cigarettes adapter which allows me to fast charge, but I lose Android auto. My solution: splice together a UsbA and UsbC cable, plug in both. Now I get both features.
- fanatic2pope 5y ago
  My Pixel phone tells me the charging rate the lock screen when I plug it in (outside of the adaptive charging hours). There is a notice at the bottom that either says "charging slowly" or "charging quickly".
  - tentacleuno 5y ago
    Or just "Charging", which IIRC happens when the device is plugged into a USB3-capable host?
- gnicholas 5y ago
  I had a similar experience with my car, which has 2x USB-A. The charge rate is so slow that if I'm using the phone for navigation, the battery will sometimes drain. It took me months to realize this! There is no excuse for such a low charge rate, considering the vehicle is a plug-in hybrid and has more than enough battery capacity to charge a phone!
vinhboy 5y ago
Isn't this only a problem if you use usb-a to usb-c cables? This is why I hate usb-a to usb-c cables with a passion. I wish they would stop making them. I cringe thinking about how many people are missing out on fast charge capabilities because they don't know about this problem.
- EricE 5y ago
  Considering using fast charging all the time, especially when you don't really need the speed, dramatically decreases battery life you'd think phone manufacturers would be giving cheap, high quality USB C cables that guaranteed fast charging away to help kill the batteries and drive more phone sales. Something evil capitalists would do, right?
  - vinhboy 5y ago
    Considering the value fast charging adds to my life, I am fine with it dying faster. I am willing to pay for that convenience. Same with cars. Remembering to plug in my phone at night, or carrying around portable spare batteries is a thing of the past now. It's great!
cyberge99 5y ago
I’ve solved this by throwing money at it. I only use Thunderbolt 4 usb-c cables for most things. The spec is higher to achieve certification, but it encapsulates it all (power, bandwidth, etc).
- Steltek 5y ago
  Aren't high speed cables shorter? I thought they were limited to something like 18"/45cm?
  - devonbleak 5y ago
    I have a 1m Thunderbolt 4 cable, 2m are also pretty common at this point. Not exactly cheap for a cable that length, and the thunderbolt devices are also expensive. When I was building out my desktop setup the rule of thumb basically became "if I'm not questioning why this is costing so much then it's the wrong component".
lkois 5y ago
My phone (Huawei) has a charging animation with rising bubbles (flowing from the cable into the phone). The speed of the bubbles reflects the charge speed. If I use the original charger (and cable) it says "fast charging", the animation is very quick, and it shows the battery level rapidly rising in 0.01% increments. It's pretty neat. Except that if it's not on that fast charger, the only speed indicator is the damn bubbles, so I gotta watch for a few seconds and guess if it's faster or slower than other bubble animations I've seen in the past. Every other charger in the house has been a mystery for the last 2 years. I've recently picked up a couple of 65w GAN chargers which seem nicely compact and powerful enough to be the only chargers I use for everything from now on and never think about this nonsense again.
Steltek 5y ago
I discovered that some of my "USB-C" devices only charge with a USB-A to USB-C cable. They won't charge at all with a C to C cable. I'm not sure what the problem is but it's a bit disappointing.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  Probably the voltage / wattage they are designed to charge at - if you start with USB-A then you pretty much for sure know the charger will support the standard 1A/2A at 5V charging scheme.
Melatonic 5y ago
This could even be done by just a small microLED on the cable or device itself. Green means charging full speed, red means not charging, yellow means in between.

progrus 5y ago

You plug off-brand cables from Amazon that you know contain microcontrollers into your USB-C port? Brave!

gumby 5y ago
Essentially all* USB C cables have microcontrollers in them to negotiate power delivery and what protocols are supported. * it’s possible to have a USB C cable that’s really entirely passive, but in that case it falls back to USB 2 speed and the default USB power, as if it had a Type A connector on it.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  No, this is incorrect. Most USB-C cables don't contain any parts more complicated than a resistor (used for cable direction detection). PD negotiation is handled by a microcontroller in the charger, not the cable. The only USB C cables with any sort of active components in them are electronically marked cables for >60W charging, and USB4 ("Thunderbolt") cables with active transceivers. Everything else is purely passive.
  - gumby 5y ago
    When I said "entirely passive" I did mean use of resistors, which are a passive component. Electrically every USB C cable is completely backward compatible. But I am surprised by your assertion. I check every type c cable that comes into the house and have not seen one without any kind of e-marker for many years (admittedly I buy all the cables in the household, and we never had any old android phones). As I mentioned, you can't get any more than baseline power delivery over a cable that isn't e-marked with its current capacity -- this check (SPO prime) is the first thing you have to do BEFORE talking to the remote device. Also any modes from 3.1 gen1 or beyond (TBH I think it's 3.0 or beyond but I don't have the spec in front of me) need a e-marker chip to tell the endpoints what the cable is capable of. Unfortunately OSes are poor at reporting this info. I do wish that someone would make a type c charging cable that supports PD 2.0, 1.2 -- love those USB version names -- or even 3.0, but allowed no data transmission between endpoints. Basically a USB C condom cable. Haven't seen any of them.
    - Melatonic 5y ago
      I heard you can manually disable certain pins to do this. Or there may be cables designed for digital forensics that already have this done.
      - gumby 5y ago
        I'm not sure how that could work in USB C. You can definitely do it for USB A, and a lot of cheap charger cables do this to reduce BOM. But with USB C, the data lines are used for configuration negotiation (including PD) before being turned over to client data transmission.
        duskwuff 5y ago
        > But with USB C, the data lines are used for configuration negotiation (including PD) PD negotiation takes place over the CC pins, not over the USB data pins. This, and much more, is explained in TI's document "A primer on USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery Applications and Requirements": https://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy109a/slyy109a.pdf https://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy109a/slyy109a.pdf
eternityforest 5y ago
In theory, Android should be protecting us from most attacks anyway, as public charge stations are common and people are gonna use them.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

I have one too. It’s super useful to see what voltage and current the device is using.

ryanbrunner 5y ago

My android does this and it's definitely a huge plus.

thomascgalvin 5y ago

I have two USB-C ports in the armrest of my car. One connects to Android Auto and charges my phone to full in about an hour. The other doesn't connect to Android Auto, and charges my phone to full in about six hours. I've owned the car for three years, and didn't notice the charging difference until a few months ago.

vinhboy 5y ago
Oh weird, I've never heard of this. On my Bolt, the UsbA has Android auto, but no UsbC for fast charging. I bought a UsbC cigarettes adapter which allows me to fast charge, but I lose Android auto. My solution: splice together a UsbA and UsbC cable, plug in both. Now I get both features.
fanatic2pope 5y ago
My Pixel phone tells me the charging rate the lock screen when I plug it in (outside of the adaptive charging hours). There is a notice at the bottom that either says "charging slowly" or "charging quickly".
- tentacleuno 5y ago
  Or just "Charging", which IIRC happens when the device is plugged into a USB3-capable host?
gnicholas 5y ago
I had a similar experience with my car, which has 2x USB-A. The charge rate is so slow that if I'm using the phone for navigation, the battery will sometimes drain. It took me months to realize this! There is no excuse for such a low charge rate, considering the vehicle is a plug-in hybrid and has more than enough battery capacity to charge a phone!

vinhboy 5y ago

Isn't this only a problem if you use usb-a to usb-c cables? This is why I hate usb-a to usb-c cables with a passion. I wish they would stop making them. I cringe thinking about how many people are missing out on fast charge capabilities because they don't know about this problem.

EricE 5y ago
Considering using fast charging all the time, especially when you don't really need the speed, dramatically decreases battery life you'd think phone manufacturers would be giving cheap, high quality USB C cables that guaranteed fast charging away to help kill the batteries and drive more phone sales. Something evil capitalists would do, right?
- vinhboy 5y ago
  Considering the value fast charging adds to my life, I am fine with it dying faster. I am willing to pay for that convenience. Same with cars. Remembering to plug in my phone at night, or carrying around portable spare batteries is a thing of the past now. It's great!

cyberge99 5y ago

I’ve solved this by throwing money at it. I only use Thunderbolt 4 usb-c cables for most things. The spec is higher to achieve certification, but it encapsulates it all (power, bandwidth, etc).

Steltek 5y ago
Aren't high speed cables shorter? I thought they were limited to something like 18"/45cm?
- devonbleak 5y ago
  I have a 1m Thunderbolt 4 cable, 2m are also pretty common at this point. Not exactly cheap for a cable that length, and the thunderbolt devices are also expensive. When I was building out my desktop setup the rule of thumb basically became "if I'm not questioning why this is costing so much then it's the wrong component".

lkois 5y ago

My phone (Huawei) has a charging animation with rising bubbles (flowing from the cable into the phone). The speed of the bubbles reflects the charge speed. If I use the original charger (and cable) it says "fast charging", the animation is very quick, and it shows the battery level rapidly rising in 0.01% increments. It's pretty neat. Except that if it's not on that fast charger, the only speed indicator is the damn bubbles, so I gotta watch for a few seconds and guess if it's faster or slower than other bubble animations I've seen in the past. Every other charger in the house has been a mystery for the last 2 years. I've recently picked up a couple of 65w GAN chargers which seem nicely compact and powerful enough to be the only chargers I use for everything from now on and never think about this nonsense again.

Steltek 5y ago

I discovered that some of my "USB-C" devices only charge with a USB-A to USB-C cable. They won't charge at all with a C to C cable. I'm not sure what the problem is but it's a bit disappointing.

Melatonic 5y ago
Probably the voltage / wattage they are designed to charge at - if you start with USB-A then you pretty much for sure know the charger will support the standard 1A/2A at 5V charging scheme.

Melatonic 5y ago

This could even be done by just a small microLED on the cable or device itself. Green means charging full speed, red means not charging, yellow means in between.