13 ms·

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend ti

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the right balance of anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, and all with a limited budget and shitty health insurance. It breaks my heart that I can't do it for him.

sjg007 5y ago
Has he tried antabuse or something like that? Those pills make you vomit when you drink and are quite effective in harnessing the body's natural anti-poison response system to curb drinking.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Coprinus comatus mushroom has a similar effect. Just thought others would find that interesting as I do.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  For some reason we, as a society, have decided certain health problems are moral failures to be treated with shame and cured through willpower alone rather than modern medical intervention.
  - ponow 5y ago
    "For some reason" there are temptations to addiction all around us, and alcohol is only one. We can't treat being human as merely a medical condition. Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool.
    - _jal 5y ago
      > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. A rather poorly targeted and counterproductive one. Note that you immediately assumed a puritan view, that addiction is solely an individual moral failing. > there are temptations to addiction all around us
      - dionidium 5y ago
        I used to be a heavy drinker. Shame and guilt were absolutely enormous factors in my decision to quit drinking. I'm just n = 1, but it seems crazy to me to suggest that shame doesn't work. It works really, really well on me! If you want me to stop doing something, then getting me to feel ashamed about it is a very effective strategy.
        steve_adams_86 5y ago
        For many other people it might only lead to reclusion and self loathing, which leads to more drinking, which leads to more shame, and so on.
        dionidium 5y ago
        I have no trouble believing that, but it feels like across a lot of domains it's currently popular to say things like, "these old ways of human interaction don't work, therefore they are bad in all cases and should be replaced with new ways" when the truth is closer to, "these old ways of human interaction don't work sometimes and we should be open to other modalities, but the old ways remain quite effective in many cases." If I had to choose one word to describe the current era's discourse, it might be "over-correction."
        steve_adams_86 5y ago
        I agree, people tend to want to throw babies out with the bathwater. There is a trend of rejecting that which worked for previous generations but which also came with costs or compromises we no longer find acceptable. Rather than find ways to correct, like you say, instead we over-correct. I do think shame as a tool is a crude one, and people can and should try do better. The trouble is shame is easy and doing better is hard. Many of us literally don't have the tools to do better. It requires higher choices, understanding interpersonal dynamics well enough to behave in un-intuitive ways, and personal sacrifice in order to coexist and connect with people who are suffering. If the average person had these abilities I don't think we'd need to have this conversation. I don't think shame should be encouraged, but I doubt it makes sense to actively discourage it without an alternative that makes sense to people and is readily practiced. That's a hard problem. With my kids I encourage them to think of what the other person is experiencing, think about why they'd invoke shameful words about someone or something, and generally try to reframe what they're thinking about. That alone can be helpful in thinking more constructively rather than destructively. Usually shaming something occurs out of discomfort, fear, and/or insecurity. Once you begin to recognize that addiction like alcoholism often stems from bad experiences, a lack of connection, a lack of community, etc - you begin to think of the person as someone burdened with more than most humans can handle, and recognize the necessity for support rather than your own desire to reject them or their habits. Again, not a trivial thing, but one I believe is typically going to be more helpful than reaching for shame. Maybe I'm wrong but at least shame indicates that people care. No reaction or concern whatsoever would probably be the worst reaction of all.
    - The-Bus 5y ago
      The medical condition is a predilection to addiction, alcohol or otherwise. Shame doesn't cure cancer or make you recover from a common cold.
      - hallway_monitor 5y ago
        You don't have to think of addiction as a moral failing when you treat it as a behavioral problem. There's not necessarily a genetic or chemical cause or cure - in the end, addiction is a behavior.
        jolux 5y ago
        That’s begging the question, because behaviors can absolutely have chemical causes.
      - nradov 5y ago
        Predilection to addiction isn't a recognized medical condition like diabetes or heart failure. There is no diagnosis code for it. Some people seem more prone to addiction and there may be some genetic risk factors but anyone can become an addict.
      - collegeburner 5y ago
        I have a very serious family history of addiction. Many many alcoholics on both sides, hard drug abusers and ODs in younger generations too. So I don't drink. Pressure is immemse in college but still not an excuse. Addiction is a medical problem, but it's like obesity: a medical problem that arises from choices. So there is some individual responsibility. And shame may not help addicts but it sure stops people from becoming addicts.
    - clairity 5y ago
      while shame can be useful at the margin for curbing incidental misbehaviors (like peeing on the seat), it's often ineffective and counterproductive at tackling larger psychosocial issues like addiction. you don't shame people out of gambling, they just hide it from you. i know someone who's clearly an alcoholic and they simply isolate themselves for large parts of the day and then hangs out with other heavy drinkers at night. this is incidentally why 'cancel culture' doesn't work either. you have to do the hard work of active engagement[0], and that requires empathy, not (mis)judgement. shame has a small, limited place in our prosocial toolbox, but backfires reliably when mis- or over-used (and it's too often misused to enforce arbitrary conformity). [0]: intentionally avoiding the term "listening", because that tends to be shallowly dismissed, with everyone thinking they listen well simply because their ears work
    - bduerst 5y ago
      Human cultures nave also historically adapted slavery, misogyny, and other "tools". That doesn't mean that shame is an acceptable nor an effective form of addiction treatment.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Also doesn’t mean it isn’t.
    - throwawaycities 5y ago
      > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. As you said temptation to addiction is all around us, and alcohol is only one…well shame is just another one of those tempting addictions and it happens to be the addiction de jour.
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      Yes but to what end? I don’t think shame is nearly as effective a “tool” as you imagine. What are some examples of things that humans have commonly shamed one another for throughout history? Most of them, with the benefit of hindsight, were nonsense and the shame solved nothing. How many gay people were “cured” by the shame they endured? How many people with depression? Or obesity? Or AIDS? Or epilepsy? Or leprosy? Or PTSD? Or diabetes? Or dyslexia? And that’s to say nothing of the other ridiculous ways shame is wielded: when a man wants to be a stay-at-home dad, when a person doesn’t want to become a parent, when someone emigrates to another country, when someone is in a relationship with a person of another race. All of these people have been “shamed” yet none of these behaviors have abated. What would you think of a manager who uses shame to “motivate” their employees? Or a teacher who uses shame to "motivate" students? You’d probably think they’re awful at their job. We know that putting people down is a terrible an ineffective way to motivate them to move forward. So why do we still think it magically works when it comes to addiction? It doesn’t.
  - kaczordon 5y ago
    People often turn to drugs when there are other problems in their life they can’t deal with. Drug abuse is not just about the physical hook.
    - ionicgiraffe 5y ago
      Many people have never realized that self-destruction can feel liberating.
      - sjg007 5y ago
        There better ways to destroy one's ego than destroying the mind and body.
      - ativzzz 5y ago
        The "liberation" from self destruction is more of a temporary numbness, a borrowed liberation from tomorrow, that disappears once the hangover starts clearing up. It's a false sense of liberation. Speaking from experience.
        ionicgiraffe 5y ago
        I was not implying that that feeling was good or advocating for it. Just that that feeling appears, even if misguided, and we need to understand it to understand self-destruction loops
    - bduerst 5y ago
      People also turn to drugs because they were irresponsibly prescribed opioids and developed a chemical addiction. This idea that addiction is something that only happens to people who "just can't deal with life" needs to die.
  - gameswithgo 5y ago
    Hmmm, in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often. There will be replies to this post about how AA "worked for them" or something to that effect. Which doesn't mean anything. My brother struggles with alcoholism and has been on and off the horse, with AA as the main thing all the time. The primary impact it seems to have on him is that all he wants to talk about is AA and alcoholism. It becomes his identity. "Alcoholics do this, alcoholics do that, alcoholics are like this". If I thought that was helpful then fine, but it seems more rewarding identities would be possible and less limiting.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      I think the identity of "recovering alcoholic" is quite harmful. One of the things we've learned is that success with behavior changes happen when you normalize them. If someone is a "survivor of X" as their identity, X is still kind of controlling them. They are still defined in relation to that X. They are "James the rape survivor" and not "James the talented craftsman".
      - rchaud 5y ago
        There's a very good reason that the term "I'm in recovery" is commonly said by people with substance issues. Relapse is just around the corner, and most people don't know what will bring it on. It has happened to men and women stronger than you or me. Saying "I'm in recovery" is a way to remind yourself of that, and learn to be OK with taking things a day at a time. If a relapse happens, it's not the end. You're still taking it a day at a time, and tomorrow you'll make a plan to call your accountability partner, or structure your day to avoid those triggers. Telling yourself "I'm recovered" makes the relapse much more damaging.
    - dfxm12 5y ago
      in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often. I listen to old Lovelines from time to time and I thought it was weird when a caller asked Dr. Drew why he only suggests AA for alcohol addiction and never anything else. Dr. Drew, and even Adam Carolla, both got oddly defensive and started attacking the caller, as if even bringing up the question as to if alternatives exist was to question their authority to even speak on the matter. It just gave me a bad taste in my mouth for them to treat this twelve-step program as unquestionably the only way to deal with addiction. But between that and the fact that AA is often court mandated, like you say, it makes me wonder why AA is put on this pedestal and people aren't given more treatment options.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    Rehab and addiction therapy is not accessible to everyone, both geographically and financially.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I don't know about shame or moral failure, but alcoholism is obviously different from cancer or a broken leg in that you can control it yourself, even if it might be very hard for some. A lot of other conditions also benefit from a more holistic approach, things like obesity, heart problems etc are easy to prevent, hard to cure.
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      I don’t think it’s “obviously different”. A generation ago people said the same thing about depression and suicidal ideation: you can control it yourself. Just be happy. It’s a lovely sentiment for those of us who don’t suffer from it because it makes us feel like we are immune from the problem. It could never happen to us because we have the mental fortitude to overcome it. It’s a nice thought but it’s nonsense.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Wanting to drink may be like a depression or a cold, but proceeding to buy and consume alcohol is something you actively do. Or are you saying alcoholics lack free will? Then I suppose drug addicts should be immune from prosecution if they commit crimes to get drugs?
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  I'm from Russia and this is a very common treatment over there. Rather than pills, they give you an implant of sorts. In Russia we call it "getting coded". Works for some, but others just keep drinking.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Is this available in the US?
    - Dma54rhs 5y ago
      Google Disulfiram but there are some newer things out there as well.
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        Thank you, I appreciate it.
- MissionInfl 5y ago
  To anyone hoping to learn more about alcoholism medication, I highly recommend /r/Alcoholism_Medication. That subreddit, The Sinclair Method, and Naltrexone saved my life. More details in some of my recent comments too if you are interested.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- smarmgoblin 5y ago
  These are pretty often contraindicated in cases like this, especially when the patient is also managing anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Are you a doctor?
    - smarmgoblin 5y ago
      No. I did attend medical school a while back though, when I certainly knew more about the specific reactions involved here.
loceng 5y ago
Has he looked into, researched Ayahuasca yet? Legal in many places now including Canada, and plenty of anecdotal evidence that it helps break addictions/dependancies.
- fgonzag 5y ago
  I'm into drugs as much as the next guy. Ayahuasca, peyote, and similar things are just hallucigenics. It's all BS from people who don't know what it feels like and link it to spiritualism. Religion might be dead in the 21st century, but spiritualism is definitely taking its place.
spurgu 5y ago
Tell him to try kratom if he hasn't.
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  Kratom is snake oil. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health...
  - spurgu 5y ago
    It's been working wonders for me (for over two years now) and so many other people, both in pain relief as well as alcohol withdrawal. That article doesn't really say much. What's the relevant part of it that leads you to believe it's "snake oil"? Edit: Plus if you're in the situation described in the OP you don't really worry about "dry mouth" or "dizziness" or other minor side effects (I've personally only experienced nausea when combined with nicotine).
  - midiguy 5y ago
    It's not snake oil - with the right dosage it definitely produces opiate-like effects while avoiding the deadly dangers of opiate/alcohol overdose. However, it is just another addictive drug with it's own unpleasant side-effects. And tastes like earwax. If someone can substitute Kratom for Fentanyl or heavy drinking, I would consider that a win. However, for the average person picking up a Kratom addiction is not a good idea.

sjg007 5y ago

Has he tried antabuse or something like that? Those pills make you vomit when you drink and are quite effective in harnessing the body's natural anti-poison response system to curb drinking.

giantg2 5y ago
Coprinus comatus mushroom has a similar effect. Just thought others would find that interesting as I do.
elliekelly 5y ago
For some reason we, as a society, have decided certain health problems are moral failures to be treated with shame and cured through willpower alone rather than modern medical intervention.
- ponow 5y ago
  "For some reason" there are temptations to addiction all around us, and alcohol is only one. We can't treat being human as merely a medical condition. Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool.
  - _jal 5y ago
    > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. A rather poorly targeted and counterproductive one. Note that you immediately assumed a puritan view, that addiction is solely an individual moral failing. > there are temptations to addiction all around us
    - dionidium 5y ago
      I used to be a heavy drinker. Shame and guilt were absolutely enormous factors in my decision to quit drinking. I'm just n = 1, but it seems crazy to me to suggest that shame doesn't work. It works really, really well on me! If you want me to stop doing something, then getting me to feel ashamed about it is a very effective strategy.
      - steve_adams_86 5y ago
        For many other people it might only lead to reclusion and self loathing, which leads to more drinking, which leads to more shame, and so on.
        dionidium 5y ago
        I have no trouble believing that, but it feels like across a lot of domains it's currently popular to say things like, "these old ways of human interaction don't work, therefore they are bad in all cases and should be replaced with new ways" when the truth is closer to, "these old ways of human interaction don't work sometimes and we should be open to other modalities, but the old ways remain quite effective in many cases." If I had to choose one word to describe the current era's discourse, it might be "over-correction."
        steve_adams_86 5y ago
        I agree, people tend to want to throw babies out with the bathwater. There is a trend of rejecting that which worked for previous generations but which also came with costs or compromises we no longer find acceptable. Rather than find ways to correct, like you say, instead we over-correct. I do think shame as a tool is a crude one, and people can and should try do better. The trouble is shame is easy and doing better is hard. Many of us literally don't have the tools to do better. It requires higher choices, understanding interpersonal dynamics well enough to behave in un-intuitive ways, and personal sacrifice in order to coexist and connect with people who are suffering. If the average person had these abilities I don't think we'd need to have this conversation. I don't think shame should be encouraged, but I doubt it makes sense to actively discourage it without an alternative that makes sense to people and is readily practiced. That's a hard problem. With my kids I encourage them to think of what the other person is experiencing, think about why they'd invoke shameful words about someone or something, and generally try to reframe what they're thinking about. That alone can be helpful in thinking more constructively rather than destructively. Usually shaming something occurs out of discomfort, fear, and/or insecurity. Once you begin to recognize that addiction like alcoholism often stems from bad experiences, a lack of connection, a lack of community, etc - you begin to think of the person as someone burdened with more than most humans can handle, and recognize the necessity for support rather than your own desire to reject them or their habits. Again, not a trivial thing, but one I believe is typically going to be more helpful than reaching for shame. Maybe I'm wrong but at least shame indicates that people care. No reaction or concern whatsoever would probably be the worst reaction of all.
  - The-Bus 5y ago
    The medical condition is a predilection to addiction, alcohol or otherwise. Shame doesn't cure cancer or make you recover from a common cold.
    - hallway_monitor 5y ago
      You don't have to think of addiction as a moral failing when you treat it as a behavioral problem. There's not necessarily a genetic or chemical cause or cure - in the end, addiction is a behavior.
      - jolux 5y ago
        That’s begging the question, because behaviors can absolutely have chemical causes.
    - nradov 5y ago
      Predilection to addiction isn't a recognized medical condition like diabetes or heart failure. There is no diagnosis code for it. Some people seem more prone to addiction and there may be some genetic risk factors but anyone can become an addict.
    - collegeburner 5y ago
      I have a very serious family history of addiction. Many many alcoholics on both sides, hard drug abusers and ODs in younger generations too. So I don't drink. Pressure is immemse in college but still not an excuse. Addiction is a medical problem, but it's like obesity: a medical problem that arises from choices. So there is some individual responsibility. And shame may not help addicts but it sure stops people from becoming addicts.
  - clairity 5y ago
    while shame can be useful at the margin for curbing incidental misbehaviors (like peeing on the seat), it's often ineffective and counterproductive at tackling larger psychosocial issues like addiction. you don't shame people out of gambling, they just hide it from you. i know someone who's clearly an alcoholic and they simply isolate themselves for large parts of the day and then hangs out with other heavy drinkers at night. this is incidentally why 'cancel culture' doesn't work either. you have to do the hard work of active engagement[0], and that requires empathy, not (mis)judgement. shame has a small, limited place in our prosocial toolbox, but backfires reliably when mis- or over-used (and it's too often misused to enforce arbitrary conformity). [0]: intentionally avoiding the term "listening", because that tends to be shallowly dismissed, with everyone thinking they listen well simply because their ears work
  - bduerst 5y ago
    Human cultures nave also historically adapted slavery, misogyny, and other "tools". That doesn't mean that shame is an acceptable nor an effective form of addiction treatment.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Also doesn’t mean it isn’t.
  - throwawaycities 5y ago
    > Human cultures have adapted using shame as a tool. As you said temptation to addiction is all around us, and alcohol is only one…well shame is just another one of those tempting addictions and it happens to be the addiction de jour.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Yes but to what end? I don’t think shame is nearly as effective a “tool” as you imagine. What are some examples of things that humans have commonly shamed one another for throughout history? Most of them, with the benefit of hindsight, were nonsense and the shame solved nothing. How many gay people were “cured” by the shame they endured? How many people with depression? Or obesity? Or AIDS? Or epilepsy? Or leprosy? Or PTSD? Or diabetes? Or dyslexia? And that’s to say nothing of the other ridiculous ways shame is wielded: when a man wants to be a stay-at-home dad, when a person doesn’t want to become a parent, when someone emigrates to another country, when someone is in a relationship with a person of another race. All of these people have been “shamed” yet none of these behaviors have abated. What would you think of a manager who uses shame to “motivate” their employees? Or a teacher who uses shame to "motivate" students? You’d probably think they’re awful at their job. We know that putting people down is a terrible an ineffective way to motivate them to move forward. So why do we still think it magically works when it comes to addiction? It doesn’t.
- kaczordon 5y ago
  People often turn to drugs when there are other problems in their life they can’t deal with. Drug abuse is not just about the physical hook.
  - ionicgiraffe 5y ago
    Many people have never realized that self-destruction can feel liberating.
    - sjg007 5y ago
      There better ways to destroy one's ego than destroying the mind and body.
    - ativzzz 5y ago
      The "liberation" from self destruction is more of a temporary numbness, a borrowed liberation from tomorrow, that disappears once the hangover starts clearing up. It's a false sense of liberation. Speaking from experience.
      - ionicgiraffe 5y ago
        I was not implying that that feeling was good or advocating for it. Just that that feeling appears, even if misguided, and we need to understand it to understand self-destruction loops
  - bduerst 5y ago
    People also turn to drugs because they were irresponsibly prescribed opioids and developed a chemical addiction. This idea that addiction is something that only happens to people who "just can't deal with life" needs to die.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  Hmmm, in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often. There will be replies to this post about how AA "worked for them" or something to that effect. Which doesn't mean anything. My brother struggles with alcoholism and has been on and off the horse, with AA as the main thing all the time. The primary impact it seems to have on him is that all he wants to talk about is AA and alcoholism. It becomes his identity. "Alcoholics do this, alcoholics do that, alcoholics are like this". If I thought that was helpful then fine, but it seems more rewarding identities would be possible and less limiting.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    I think the identity of "recovering alcoholic" is quite harmful. One of the things we've learned is that success with behavior changes happen when you normalize them. If someone is a "survivor of X" as their identity, X is still kind of controlling them. They are still defined in relation to that X. They are "James the rape survivor" and not "James the talented craftsman".
    - rchaud 5y ago
      There's a very good reason that the term "I'm in recovery" is commonly said by people with substance issues. Relapse is just around the corner, and most people don't know what will bring it on. It has happened to men and women stronger than you or me. Saying "I'm in recovery" is a way to remind yourself of that, and learn to be OK with taking things a day at a time. If a relapse happens, it's not the end. You're still taking it a day at a time, and tomorrow you'll make a plan to call your accountability partner, or structure your day to avoid those triggers. Telling yourself "I'm recovered" makes the relapse much more damaging.
  - dfxm12 5y ago
    in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often. I listen to old Lovelines from time to time and I thought it was weird when a caller asked Dr. Drew why he only suggests AA for alcohol addiction and never anything else. Dr. Drew, and even Adam Carolla, both got oddly defensive and started attacking the caller, as if even bringing up the question as to if alternatives exist was to question their authority to even speak on the matter. It just gave me a bad taste in my mouth for them to treat this twelve-step program as unquestionably the only way to deal with addiction. But between that and the fact that AA is often court mandated, like you say, it makes me wonder why AA is put on this pedestal and people aren't given more treatment options.
- rchaud 5y ago
  Rehab and addiction therapy is not accessible to everyone, both geographically and financially.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I don't know about shame or moral failure, but alcoholism is obviously different from cancer or a broken leg in that you can control it yourself, even if it might be very hard for some. A lot of other conditions also benefit from a more holistic approach, things like obesity, heart problems etc are easy to prevent, hard to cure.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    I don’t think it’s “obviously different”. A generation ago people said the same thing about depression and suicidal ideation: you can control it yourself. Just be happy. It’s a lovely sentiment for those of us who don’t suffer from it because it makes us feel like we are immune from the problem. It could never happen to us because we have the mental fortitude to overcome it. It’s a nice thought but it’s nonsense.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Wanting to drink may be like a depression or a cold, but proceeding to buy and consume alcohol is something you actively do. Or are you saying alcoholics lack free will? Then I suppose drug addicts should be immune from prosecution if they commit crimes to get drugs?
_fat_santa 5y ago
I'm from Russia and this is a very common treatment over there. Rather than pills, they give you an implant of sorts. In Russia we call it "getting coded". Works for some, but others just keep drinking.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Is this available in the US?
  - Dma54rhs 5y ago
    Google Disulfiram but there are some newer things out there as well.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      Thank you, I appreciate it.
MissionInfl 5y ago
To anyone hoping to learn more about alcoholism medication, I highly recommend /r/Alcoholism_Medication. That subreddit, The Sinclair Method, and Naltrexone saved my life. More details in some of my recent comments too if you are interested.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
smarmgoblin 5y ago
These are pretty often contraindicated in cases like this, especially when the patient is also managing anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Are you a doctor?
  - smarmgoblin 5y ago
    No. I did attend medical school a while back though, when I certainly knew more about the specific reactions involved here.

loceng 5y ago

Has he looked into, researched Ayahuasca yet? Legal in many places now including Canada, and plenty of anecdotal evidence that it helps break addictions/dependancies.

fgonzag 5y ago
I'm into drugs as much as the next guy. Ayahuasca, peyote, and similar things are just hallucigenics. It's all BS from people who don't know what it feels like and link it to spiritualism. Religion might be dead in the 21st century, but spiritualism is definitely taking its place.

spurgu 5y ago

Tell him to try kratom if he hasn't.

lp0_on_fire 5y ago
Kratom is snake oil. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health...
- spurgu 5y ago
  It's been working wonders for me (for over two years now) and so many other people, both in pain relief as well as alcohol withdrawal. That article doesn't really say much. What's the relevant part of it that leads you to believe it's "snake oil"? Edit: Plus if you're in the situation described in the OP you don't really worry about "dry mouth" or "dizziness" or other minor side effects (I've personally only experienced nausea when combined with nicotine).
- midiguy 5y ago
  It's not snake oil - with the right dosage it definitely produces opiate-like effects while avoiding the deadly dangers of opiate/alcohol overdose. However, it is just another addictive drug with it's own unpleasant side-effects. And tastes like earwax. If someone can substitute Kratom for Fentanyl or heavy drinking, I would consider that a win. However, for the average person picking up a Kratom addiction is not a good idea.