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> So long as our mind is extroverted, attending to anything other than our own essential self-conscious being, we can never experience perfect, permanent and un

> So long as our mind is extroverted, attending to anything other than our own essential self-conscious being, we can never experience perfect, permanent and unqualified happiness. Meh, I think Tolstoy had it right: There is only one enduring happiness in life—to live for others. I am not surprised that HN buys into this individualism. Here is Chris Hedges discussing how Tolstoy's insight applies the age of social media https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwnynLc2U4Q&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwnynLc2U4Q&t=1s

namero999 5y ago
If you follow the thread all the way you'll discover that in this philosophy, whose roots are to be found in the mystical tradition of Hinduism - Advaita Vedanta, your essential conscious being is shared (I'm wary of the western use of "self-conscious", that is why I have omitted it). Therefore, what is really being said is that without the realization that our most intimate identity is (===, reference equality) that of everything else, happiness (defined as equanimity) cannot be achieved. It is actually the opposite of individualism.
- glutamate 5y ago
  Totally agree that this is ultimately very non-individualistic. But there is a difference between what this teaching is at its core, and why it appeals to certain groups in the west. see McMindfulness etc
  - namero999 5y ago
    Unfortunately you might be right :)
mdp2021 5y ago
You have misunderstood the point to the level of "Einstein and moral relativity". Applied to the context you put (cultivation and others), it's along the lines of "perform surgery while sober vs drunk". You misunderstood because of the imperfect summary from the commenter, and because of the un-realization that the use language implies very large amounts of interpretational space - explicitly. You have to understand those expressions through the understanding of the full discipline. And: the context is not in the realm of "I think", it's not a philosophy: it's meant to be research.
helpfulmandrill 5y ago
I like the idea that happiness lies in helping others. But then I get into a loop with the following thought: if everyone just focused on helping others, no one would want to be helped (they'd all prefer helping others) and therefore it wouldn't do anyone any good. Maybe I'm overthinking this...
- amelius 5y ago
  You can help others and allow others to help you. In fact, in this hypothetical setup, you can help others by allowing them to help you.
mdp2021 5y ago
...And: the foremost favour you can do to your fellow men is to act while in proper shape.

namero999 5y ago

If you follow the thread all the way you'll discover that in this philosophy, whose roots are to be found in the mystical tradition of Hinduism - Advaita Vedanta, your essential conscious being is shared (I'm wary of the western use of "self-conscious", that is why I have omitted it). Therefore, what is really being said is that without the realization that our most intimate identity is (===, reference equality) that of everything else, happiness (defined as equanimity) cannot be achieved. It is actually the opposite of individualism.

glutamate 5y ago
Totally agree that this is ultimately very non-individualistic. But there is a difference between what this teaching is at its core, and why it appeals to certain groups in the west. see McMindfulness etc
- namero999 5y ago
  Unfortunately you might be right :)

mdp2021 5y ago

You have misunderstood the point to the level of "Einstein and moral relativity". Applied to the context you put (cultivation and others), it's along the lines of "perform surgery while sober vs drunk". You misunderstood because of the imperfect summary from the commenter, and because of the un-realization that the use language implies very large amounts of interpretational space - explicitly. You have to understand those expressions through the understanding of the full discipline. And: the context is not in the realm of "I think", it's not a philosophy: it's meant to be research.

helpfulmandrill 5y ago

I like the idea that happiness lies in helping others. But then I get into a loop with the following thought: if everyone just focused on helping others, no one would want to be helped (they'd all prefer helping others) and therefore it wouldn't do anyone any good. Maybe I'm overthinking this...

amelius 5y ago
You can help others and allow others to help you. In fact, in this hypothetical setup, you can help others by allowing them to help you.

mdp2021 5y ago

...And: the foremost favour you can do to your fellow men is to act while in proper shape.