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My daughter did an ISA for a six month digital marketing bootcamp. Terms were a capped ($40K total payback) 1/2 of income over $40K for 5 years, 0% interest. O

My daughter did an ISA for a six month digital marketing bootcamp. Terms were a capped ($40K total payback) 1/2 of income over $40K for 5 years, 0% interest. On one hand, the total payback would be $40K for six months of school. That is really high even for a top-tier college. On the other had, she has ended up going from $30K/year to about $50k/year and is paying $5000 per year towards her ISA. So her income went up by $20K and she's keeping $15k of it. That's a pretty big win - so six months of school, increase in net income of 50%. Not bad. So where's the real problem? For every person like my daughter, there are lots of people who spend six months, and end up not making enough money to pay back the ISA. There's a lot more to improving your income than going to school. Everything from grooming habits to interpersonal skills to punctuality. The school was taking on immense risk of getting no money from many of the students.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago
> On the other had, she has ended up going from $30K/year to about $50k/year and is paying $5000 per year towards her ISA. So her income went up by $20K and she's keeping $15k of it. That's a pretty big win - so six months of school, increase in net income of 50%. Not bad. That's 50% increase in gross income, not net income.
- indymike 5y ago
  Minor nit $20k is the gross income so $15K is the net. $15k is 50% of $30k.
  - baobabKoodaa 5y ago
    No. $20k is the gross income. Then you deduct ISA payment $5k and you get to $15k. Then you deduct taxes and you get to X. X is the net income. X is lower than $15k. Therefore, the net income does not increase by 50% in this example. The net income increases much less than 50%.
sokoloff 5y ago
Her taxes likely went up by $2400 or so (plus whatever the state income tax on $20000 incremental is) and she paid $5K to the ISA. So, seems like she kept around $12.5K of the $20K (less if she’s in a state that taxes income), which is an improvement to her life, but is less than +50% increase in her pocket.
throwawaygh 5y ago
> On one hand, the total payback would be $40K for six months of school. That is really high even for a top-tier college. For reference, my wife worked at a restaurant during undergrad, stayed with her parents, and didn't have much scholarship money. She paid about $40K ($30K in loans, $10K in money from her restaurant and tutoring gigs. We paid off the loans with signing bonuses before they accrued any interest). Again, for FOUR YEARS of education at a full university. Why does that matter? Well, she had three majors in three very different subjects, any one of which enables a lucrative career and the combination of which makes her extraordinarily valuable. Sorry if this comes off as rude, but I can't even begin to imagine thinking that $40K for 6 months of instruction in white collar commodity labor is a good deal.
- lmm 5y ago
  Years of life taken goes in the cost column, not the benefit column. You should probably include the market value of four years' rent in the costs too even if you were getting it for "free". And yeah, bragging about how cool your triple-major wife is while sneering at those of us from a lower class background where making it to "white collar commodity" is a big step up is pretty damn rude.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > Years of life taken goes in the cost column She wasn't in suspended animation for four years. She received four years of a valuable service. > us from a lower class background She grew up in a single parent household, was the first person in her family to receive a college degree, and paid rent (actually, started helping with household expenses in high school).
    - lmm 5y ago
      > She wasn't in suspended animation for four years. She received four years of a valuable service. So if the same degree had taken eight years, would that make it more valuable? You're still talking about delaying her life for those years. I don't know enough to comment about how much different course providers are teaching, but if they really were managing to teach you the same things as a four-year degree in six months, that would surely make it more valuable, not less.
Manuel_D 5y ago
> So where's the real problem? For every person like my daughter, there are lots of people who spend six months, and end up not making enough money to pay back the ISA. Isn't that a feature, not a problem? The education institution has a strong incentive to actually improve the earning potential of its graduates. This is in contrast to institutions that get paid upfront, which have no such incentive. Once you've forked over the tuition they're getting paid regardless of how well its graduates do in the workplace. I think the learning here is that institutions offering ISAs need to be more selective with enrollment.
paxys 5y ago
Another question to ask is - could the $20K raise be attributed solely to the bootcamp or was it her dedication and preparation over 6 months that got her the job? Could she have done it on her own?
- indymike 5y ago
  > could the $20K raise be attributed solely to the bootcamp Yes.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago

> On the other had, she has ended up going from $30K/year to about $50k/year and is paying $5000 per year towards her ISA. So her income went up by $20K and she's keeping $15k of it. That's a pretty big win - so six months of school, increase in net income of 50%. Not bad. That's 50% increase in gross income, not net income.

indymike 5y ago
Minor nit $20k is the gross income so $15K is the net. $15k is 50% of $30k.
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  No. $20k is the gross income. Then you deduct ISA payment $5k and you get to $15k. Then you deduct taxes and you get to X. X is the net income. X is lower than $15k. Therefore, the net income does not increase by 50% in this example. The net income increases much less than 50%.

sokoloff 5y ago

Her taxes likely went up by $2400 or so (plus whatever the state income tax on $20000 incremental is) and she paid $5K to the ISA. So, seems like she kept around $12.5K of the $20K (less if she’s in a state that taxes income), which is an improvement to her life, but is less than +50% increase in her pocket.

throwawaygh 5y ago

> On one hand, the total payback would be $40K for six months of school. That is really high even for a top-tier college. For reference, my wife worked at a restaurant during undergrad, stayed with her parents, and didn't have much scholarship money. She paid about $40K ($30K in loans, $10K in money from her restaurant and tutoring gigs. We paid off the loans with signing bonuses before they accrued any interest). Again, for FOUR YEARS of education at a full university. Why does that matter? Well, she had three majors in three very different subjects, any one of which enables a lucrative career and the combination of which makes her extraordinarily valuable. Sorry if this comes off as rude, but I can't even begin to imagine thinking that $40K for 6 months of instruction in white collar commodity labor is a good deal.

lmm 5y ago
Years of life taken goes in the cost column, not the benefit column. You should probably include the market value of four years' rent in the costs too even if you were getting it for "free". And yeah, bragging about how cool your triple-major wife is while sneering at those of us from a lower class background where making it to "white collar commodity" is a big step up is pretty damn rude.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > Years of life taken goes in the cost column She wasn't in suspended animation for four years. She received four years of a valuable service. > us from a lower class background She grew up in a single parent household, was the first person in her family to receive a college degree, and paid rent (actually, started helping with household expenses in high school).
  - lmm 5y ago
    > She wasn't in suspended animation for four years. She received four years of a valuable service. So if the same degree had taken eight years, would that make it more valuable? You're still talking about delaying her life for those years. I don't know enough to comment about how much different course providers are teaching, but if they really were managing to teach you the same things as a four-year degree in six months, that would surely make it more valuable, not less.

Manuel_D 5y ago

> So where's the real problem? For every person like my daughter, there are lots of people who spend six months, and end up not making enough money to pay back the ISA. Isn't that a feature, not a problem? The education institution has a strong incentive to actually improve the earning potential of its graduates. This is in contrast to institutions that get paid upfront, which have no such incentive. Once you've forked over the tuition they're getting paid regardless of how well its graduates do in the workplace. I think the learning here is that institutions offering ISAs need to be more selective with enrollment.

paxys 5y ago

Another question to ask is - could the $20K raise be attributed solely to the bootcamp or was it her dedication and preparation over 6 months that got her the job? Could she have done it on her own?

indymike 5y ago
> could the $20K raise be attributed solely to the bootcamp Yes.