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I joined the Orthodox Church in my 40s. I wish I would have known about it when I was younger, especially in my 30s, with my young family. The benefits that com

I joined the Orthodox Church in my 40s. I wish I would have known about it when I was younger, especially in my 30s, with my young family. The benefits that come from daily spiritual devotion both individually and a family, as well as the benefits that come from being part of a faithful community are impossible to list. Is it all easy and is it all benefits? Of course not. But centering my life around God through daily devotion to the practices that are part of that have brought so much more stability and fulfillment than I ever could have known.

NateEag 5y ago
Were you religious before you joined the Orthodox Church? What inspired you to join it?
- prometheus76 5y ago
  I grew up Mormon, explored Taoism and Buddhism, but never felt "at home". I considered myself an atheist for many years after that, but never really gave up hope that I could find a spiritual path. My family was on the brink of falling apart at one point, and I had started listening to Jordan Peterson's lectures on the Bible. That led me to the work of Jonathan Pageau. Once I started to understand what he was actually talking about (by learning more about the traditional pre-Enlightenment worldview), I thought "what do I have to lose?" and went to a local Orthodox church. I began meeting with the priest, and it's now the foundation for my life, and it's a part of my life every day, and affects every decision I make.
  - NateEag 5y ago
    Interesting. Thank you very much for sharing your journey!
yuuu 5y ago
I really want to become an Orthodox Christian but feel like I would struggle with the whole "believing in God" thing. Should I still try it? Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time?
- azth 5y ago
  > Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time? The door is always open. Please check out: https://www.provingislam.com/ https://www.provingislam.com/
- prometheus76 5y ago
  Orthodoxy definitely takes a different approach than just accepting a proposition. I was a staunch atheist for many years, after having grown up Mormon. I was bitter and felt betrayed as I fell away from Mormonism. Here's what changed for me: I realized that the Christianity I had been a part of was still rooted in the Enlightenment and in empiricism. It tries to prove itself to be legitimate and relevant by trying to use archeology or science to verify the Bible. It's completely backwards and futile. I listened to the Bible lectures that Jordan Peterson made several years ago, and I was intrigued because I had never heard anyone putting aside the historical story of the Bible and instead focusing on its relevance from a neuroscience point of view. This led to me eventually finding the work of Jonathan Pageau. He's an Orthodox icon carver, and he talks about the traditional worldview, how to understand the Bible from an ontological point of view (a hierarchy of being) rather than from a "scientific" or empirical point of view. It took a year or two before I really started to understand what he even meant, but once I started to understand that way of looking at the world, my whole world changed and I quickly joined the Orthodox Church. To be more specific, I would recommend finding an Orthodox Church local to you, and just go see what it's like. Introduce yourself to the priest after the service, and he would be happy to talk with you and helping you begin to see the Orthodox way of life. The Orthodox approach focuses much more on your relationship with God, rather than a list of checkboxes of do's and don't-dos. It's very participatory. It demands a lot from the followers, but the sense of meaning, being, and purpose that have replaced my old sense of nihilism, meaninglessness, and despair...I can't even put into words how much my life has changed.
  - yuuu 5y ago
    Thank you for the great response. I am also not a fan of conflating science and religion, so this is a refreshing take. I will take a look into Jonathan Pageau and maybe even visit my local Orthodox church (although I'm very scared)!
karmakurtisaani 5y ago
I could see the benefits of having a spiritual community around you, but, like, how do you convince yourself that supernatural things like gods exist? There's just very little tangible or logical there. Or would it be worth it to participate without really believing? Or you just somehow start believing? Frankly, for me doing that would probably be comparable to asking you to convert to Hinduism or something similar. Stability and fulfilment sound good tho.
- Xeoncross 5y ago
  That's the thing, most of these questions have been answered or at least heavily explored. Atheism is relatively new to the philosophical space, so I've found most arguments and thought exploration is based on ancient religions. After all, these same people founded most branches of science and math.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  The first struggle (and it took a couple of years, and is still in process) is learning that my entire worldview is rooted in the presuppositions of the Enlightenment and of modernism (and postmodernism, to a lesser degree). That is not how people saw the world for most of the history of humanity. And most of the experiences of religion and God that I had growing up were through that same empirical, Enlightenment worldview. Through the work of Jonathan Pageau, I began to learn to see the world through a more traditional mindset. And I began to look at my own thinking and my previous presuppositions more carefully. For example, you said "convince yourself that supernatural things exist". But you already believe all kinds of supernatural things exist. You believe in numbers. You believe in categories. You believe in grammar. You believe in logic. You believe in cities. You believe in political offices. Those are all above the natural world. In philosophy, that's called "metaphysics". It's "above" the physical world. You have a hierarchy of values (which is not physical) that determines how you see the world, how you act in the world, and how you categorize what your senses are feeding your brain. This is completely in line with our current scientific understanding of how our brains work. The work of John Vervaeke can also be very helpful. Anyway, once I got over my empiricism and began to see that empiricism is completely blind to very large swathes of the human experience, it got much easier to say "well, since I have a value system intrinsically, and since a value system is completely necessary, perhaps I should put more effort into structuring it around the highest good." Please keep in mind this process took a couple of years and will last for the rest of my life, but I hope you can see the stepping stones along the way.
shetill 5y ago
As someone born in eastern EU country. I am well familiar with orthodox, so I really don't see what's good about it. In our countries the priests are one of the most corrupted individuals who are always fat (as opposed to generally skinny population of poor people that can't afford much food) and always drive the nicest cars. How spiritual they are is arguable. They don't pay taxes, still are allowed to have wives and families and their working hours is way less than 40/w. If that's the life you are going for, then being and orthodox priest is the way to go.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  I consider it no small blessing that I have a pious priest as my spiritual father. May God bless you in your struggle.
- Darmody 5y ago
  Because you don't see the spiritual part of it, only how it's being used as a way for people to grab power and wealth.
- csomar 5y ago
  I guess everyone need to get his fix somehow. Some people play the Piano, some use drugs; and some devote themselves to a religion. The difference between the drug cartels and the religious priests is just the clothes. Both can also be very violent.

NateEag 5y ago

Were you religious before you joined the Orthodox Church? What inspired you to join it?

prometheus76 5y ago
I grew up Mormon, explored Taoism and Buddhism, but never felt "at home". I considered myself an atheist for many years after that, but never really gave up hope that I could find a spiritual path. My family was on the brink of falling apart at one point, and I had started listening to Jordan Peterson's lectures on the Bible. That led me to the work of Jonathan Pageau. Once I started to understand what he was actually talking about (by learning more about the traditional pre-Enlightenment worldview), I thought "what do I have to lose?" and went to a local Orthodox church. I began meeting with the priest, and it's now the foundation for my life, and it's a part of my life every day, and affects every decision I make.
- NateEag 5y ago
  Interesting. Thank you very much for sharing your journey!

yuuu 5y ago

I really want to become an Orthodox Christian but feel like I would struggle with the whole "believing in God" thing. Should I still try it? Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time?

azth 5y ago
> Is there any way that I could "come to believe in God" in time? The door is always open. Please check out: https://www.provingislam.com/ https://www.provingislam.com/
prometheus76 5y ago
Orthodoxy definitely takes a different approach than just accepting a proposition. I was a staunch atheist for many years, after having grown up Mormon. I was bitter and felt betrayed as I fell away from Mormonism. Here's what changed for me: I realized that the Christianity I had been a part of was still rooted in the Enlightenment and in empiricism. It tries to prove itself to be legitimate and relevant by trying to use archeology or science to verify the Bible. It's completely backwards and futile. I listened to the Bible lectures that Jordan Peterson made several years ago, and I was intrigued because I had never heard anyone putting aside the historical story of the Bible and instead focusing on its relevance from a neuroscience point of view. This led to me eventually finding the work of Jonathan Pageau. He's an Orthodox icon carver, and he talks about the traditional worldview, how to understand the Bible from an ontological point of view (a hierarchy of being) rather than from a "scientific" or empirical point of view. It took a year or two before I really started to understand what he even meant, but once I started to understand that way of looking at the world, my whole world changed and I quickly joined the Orthodox Church. To be more specific, I would recommend finding an Orthodox Church local to you, and just go see what it's like. Introduce yourself to the priest after the service, and he would be happy to talk with you and helping you begin to see the Orthodox way of life. The Orthodox approach focuses much more on your relationship with God, rather than a list of checkboxes of do's and don't-dos. It's very participatory. It demands a lot from the followers, but the sense of meaning, being, and purpose that have replaced my old sense of nihilism, meaninglessness, and despair...I can't even put into words how much my life has changed.
- yuuu 5y ago
  Thank you for the great response. I am also not a fan of conflating science and religion, so this is a refreshing take. I will take a look into Jonathan Pageau and maybe even visit my local Orthodox church (although I'm very scared)!

karmakurtisaani 5y ago

I could see the benefits of having a spiritual community around you, but, like, how do you convince yourself that supernatural things like gods exist? There's just very little tangible or logical there. Or would it be worth it to participate without really believing? Or you just somehow start believing? Frankly, for me doing that would probably be comparable to asking you to convert to Hinduism or something similar. Stability and fulfilment sound good tho.

Xeoncross 5y ago
That's the thing, most of these questions have been answered or at least heavily explored. Atheism is relatively new to the philosophical space, so I've found most arguments and thought exploration is based on ancient religions. After all, these same people founded most branches of science and math.
prometheus76 5y ago
The first struggle (and it took a couple of years, and is still in process) is learning that my entire worldview is rooted in the presuppositions of the Enlightenment and of modernism (and postmodernism, to a lesser degree). That is not how people saw the world for most of the history of humanity. And most of the experiences of religion and God that I had growing up were through that same empirical, Enlightenment worldview. Through the work of Jonathan Pageau, I began to learn to see the world through a more traditional mindset. And I began to look at my own thinking and my previous presuppositions more carefully. For example, you said "convince yourself that supernatural things exist". But you already believe all kinds of supernatural things exist. You believe in numbers. You believe in categories. You believe in grammar. You believe in logic. You believe in cities. You believe in political offices. Those are all above the natural world. In philosophy, that's called "metaphysics". It's "above" the physical world. You have a hierarchy of values (which is not physical) that determines how you see the world, how you act in the world, and how you categorize what your senses are feeding your brain. This is completely in line with our current scientific understanding of how our brains work. The work of John Vervaeke can also be very helpful. Anyway, once I got over my empiricism and began to see that empiricism is completely blind to very large swathes of the human experience, it got much easier to say "well, since I have a value system intrinsically, and since a value system is completely necessary, perhaps I should put more effort into structuring it around the highest good." Please keep in mind this process took a couple of years and will last for the rest of my life, but I hope you can see the stepping stones along the way.

shetill 5y ago

As someone born in eastern EU country. I am well familiar with orthodox, so I really don't see what's good about it. In our countries the priests are one of the most corrupted individuals who are always fat (as opposed to generally skinny population of poor people that can't afford much food) and always drive the nicest cars. How spiritual they are is arguable. They don't pay taxes, still are allowed to have wives and families and their working hours is way less than 40/w. If that's the life you are going for, then being and orthodox priest is the way to go.

prometheus76 5y ago
I consider it no small blessing that I have a pious priest as my spiritual father. May God bless you in your struggle.
Darmody 5y ago
Because you don't see the spiritual part of it, only how it's being used as a way for people to grab power and wealth.
csomar 5y ago
I guess everyone need to get his fix somehow. Some people play the Piano, some use drugs; and some devote themselves to a religion. The difference between the drug cartels and the religious priests is just the clothes. Both can also be very violent.