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Damn right. Every time there’s a video of one of these things being put to use, it’s invariably followed by “fuck, yeah!”, high fives or other form of celebra

by abcd_f 5y ago

Damn right. Every time there’s a video of one of these things being put to use, it’s invariably followed by “fuck, yeah!”, high fives or other form of celebration. But they didn’t just destroy a tank, they also killed the crew, burning it alive. In fact some of the crew may still be alive and smoldering at that very moment... War is war, do what you have to, but celebrating a killing is just wrong.

eptcyka 5y ago
I agree that the fate of a tank engineer being struck by an anti-tank missile is not great, but when comparing the scenarios of having a tank be disabled and its crew dismembered with the devastation that said tank will bring to civilians and civilian buildings, I'd much rather have the tank get disabled. The sad reality is that the tank operators will probably operate a tank to commit some atrocities some time before the anti-tank missile will be able to commit it's own atrocities upon the tank. I think pointing out that weapons of war are bad is like saying that water is wet. However, comparing the power of destruction between the tank and the anti-tank missile launcher, both can disable each other, but the damage one can do to humans and infrastructure is just disproportionate - it's ultimately a moral good to destroy a tank.
chockchocschoir 5y ago
Indeed, morality is twisted in war times. But I don't think they are celebrating killing fellow humans, they are celebrating defending their homeland from invaders. I'm generally pro-peace in every single way. But I see a difference in celebrations from the people who are invading versus celebrations from the people who are defending themselves against invaders. One I'm fine with, the other I'm not. As many others have already done, the people in the tank has a choice between continuing to follow orders, or going against orders and leave their jobs/equipment behind. I feel very little sympathy right now towards the people who are continuing to follow orders even if they are aware they are invading their bordering country.
gentleman11 5y ago
So you think it was inappropriate to celebrate winning battles against hitler? When there are hundreds of thousands of murderers (“soldiers”) coming to your country, sometimes to genocide your people, is there never a point when a little morale boost becomes okay? In the Ukraine, they are deliberately targeting civilians and laying minefields - you can’t cheer a little bit when you manage, as the underdog, to hit back?
nautilius 5y ago
They don't celebrate killing, they celebrate one less tank that can go on to kill their families, to stop their country being overrun - and, in the heat of the moment, I guess they celebrate having survived the encounter.
- filomeno 5y ago
  Yes. However that tank could also have prevented other families from being killed. These days we are seeing Putin's war on TV, but another war inside Ukraine has been ongoing for 8 years now. We couldn't see it on western media, of course, but families and civilians were also killed by the same army we're now supporting. So I won't celebrate either, because here, there are no good and bad.
  - bunyk 5y ago
    You forgot to mention that another war ongoing for 8 years now was also started by Putin. And when things go to court, like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families.
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      >like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families. Evidence? That sounds like an understatement to me, we have details history of the whole thing including communication with command and photos of the route the BUK took afterward going into Russia. Its beyond shadow of doubt it was russian military that is responsible for MH17
    - filomeno 5y ago
      > You forgot to mention that another war ongoing for 8 years now was also started by Putin So it's OK to kill civilians, your own civilians, in a war, if it was started by somebody else. Good to know that.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Nepizdi. The guerilla war wagered in East Ukraine saw lots of civillian casualties despite best efforts of the Ukrainian military, not because of its involvement. And there would be no civilian casualties if Russia wasn't supporting the separatists and if they weren't constantly pushing misinformation over their borders.

by abcd_f 5y ago

eptcyka 5y ago

I agree that the fate of a tank engineer being struck by an anti-tank missile is not great, but when comparing the scenarios of having a tank be disabled and its crew dismembered with the devastation that said tank will bring to civilians and civilian buildings, I'd much rather have the tank get disabled. The sad reality is that the tank operators will probably operate a tank to commit some atrocities some time before the anti-tank missile will be able to commit it's own atrocities upon the tank. I think pointing out that weapons of war are bad is like saying that water is wet. However, comparing the power of destruction between the tank and the anti-tank missile launcher, both can disable each other, but the damage one can do to humans and infrastructure is just disproportionate - it's ultimately a moral good to destroy a tank.

chockchocschoir 5y ago

Indeed, morality is twisted in war times. But I don't think they are celebrating killing fellow humans, they are celebrating defending their homeland from invaders. I'm generally pro-peace in every single way. But I see a difference in celebrations from the people who are invading versus celebrations from the people who are defending themselves against invaders. One I'm fine with, the other I'm not. As many others have already done, the people in the tank has a choice between continuing to follow orders, or going against orders and leave their jobs/equipment behind. I feel very little sympathy right now towards the people who are continuing to follow orders even if they are aware they are invading their bordering country.

gentleman11 5y ago

So you think it was inappropriate to celebrate winning battles against hitler? When there are hundreds of thousands of murderers (“soldiers”) coming to your country, sometimes to genocide your people, is there never a point when a little morale boost becomes okay? In the Ukraine, they are deliberately targeting civilians and laying minefields - you can’t cheer a little bit when you manage, as the underdog, to hit back?

nautilius 5y ago

They don't celebrate killing, they celebrate one less tank that can go on to kill their families, to stop their country being overrun - and, in the heat of the moment, I guess they celebrate having survived the encounter.

filomeno 5y ago
Yes. However that tank could also have prevented other families from being killed. These days we are seeing Putin's war on TV, but another war inside Ukraine has been ongoing for 8 years now. We couldn't see it on western media, of course, but families and civilians were also killed by the same army we're now supporting. So I won't celebrate either, because here, there are no good and bad.
- bunyk 5y ago
  You forgot to mention that another war ongoing for 8 years now was also started by Putin. And when things go to court, like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    >like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families. Evidence? That sounds like an understatement to me, we have details history of the whole thing including communication with command and photos of the route the BUK took afterward going into Russia. Its beyond shadow of doubt it was russian military that is responsible for MH17
  - filomeno 5y ago
    > You forgot to mention that another war ongoing for 8 years now was also started by Putin So it's OK to kill civilians, your own civilians, in a war, if it was started by somebody else. Good to know that.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Nepizdi. The guerilla war wagered in East Ukraine saw lots of civillian casualties despite best efforts of the Ukrainian military, not because of its involvement. And there would be no civilian casualties if Russia wasn't supporting the separatists and if they weren't constantly pushing misinformation over their borders.