4 ms·

What you are suggesting is impossible in practice. It is impossible to not accidentally upset somebody no matter what you say. Unless what you say is so meaning

What you are suggesting is impossible in practice. It is impossible to not accidentally upset somebody no matter what you say. Unless what you say is so meaningless and vanilla that you might as well not have said anything. We would have to ban all jokes, all political opinions, all scientific discoveries (because religious people might be upset), all expressions of art etc. That is impossible.

otterley 5y ago
Then how do millions of people manage to accomplish this every single day? Also, statements like this come across as a justification for not even trying. I hope that's not what you intend.
- nec4b 5y ago
  Maybe they are boring or maybe you don't have the means to hear what millions of people say every single day?
- krageon 5y ago
  They accomplish it because the folks around them are normal human beings that don't completely fly off the handle when something they don't like is said by someone else. You talk about it, rib back or leave. It's not rocket science.
  - otterley 5y ago
    That's possible, but a more likely explanation is that most people know better than to make inappropriate jokes about their colleagues. In my 30-year-long career, the number of people I've observed making such jokes is far outweighed by the number of people who maintain a professional demeanor.
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      Let me give you an example: Let’s say (for arguments sake) that I got upset reading your comment. Following your logic it is now your fault that I am upset. So you need to change your behaviour until I am no longer upset. Can you see how impractical/impossible that is? Any opinion you have might upset somebody. So the only way to not upset anybody is to stay silent.
      - otterley 5y ago
        You're not following my logic, because it's not what I said, or what I mean. We're talking specifically about off-color jokes about work colleagues, not factual statements like "I ate an apple" or uncontroversial personal opinions like "I like cheese."
        mbrodersen 5y ago
        “I like cheese” will be offensive and perhaps upsetting to some vegans. So better not talk about food at work. The same with pretty much any subject you can think of. Making the work environment or any other environment non-upsetting to everybody at all time is impossible. Somebody gets promoted instead of you: now you are upset. So let’s ban promoting people. The CEO makes 1000x more money than you while golfing every day? That upsets a lot of people. So let’s ban that. Some people are better dresses than you at work. How upsetting. Let’s all wear identical clothes. I could go on. But that might upset somebody somewhere.
        Forgeties79 5y ago
        I get why this “could” happen but I find it hard to believe you think that’s how things shake out even 1% of the time. You’re spiking the conversation with a vaguely-slippery-slope argument rooted in niche theoretical scenarios.
        mbrodersen 5y ago
        Not at all. I have experienced co-workers getting upset over things like that. Leading to heated arguments and bad feelings. My point is that what you happens to think is offensive and what isn’t does not match what others find offensive. So trying to ban everything that might offend somebody somewhere will lead to everything being banned. It won’t just be your particular pet ban list.
  - Forgeties79 5y ago
    I just don't know how you can say things like this when professional environments like Activision-Blizzard exist. You act like it's either "everything we say can be said without any social consequence" or "everyone is offended by everything all the time," when the reality is it's a sliding scale based on context. I have a higher tolerance for things with a small group of friends than I do in the workplace. I will talk about religion, politics, get heated/passionate, etc. in a friend-context. I do NOT want that at work, and I think I am entitled to a workplace where people have to self-censor a bit in an effort to keep the peace. I do it every day around conservatives who get their feathers ruffled if I say something bad about the GOP/Trump, what makes them so special that they can talk about whatever they want whenever they want and expect NO social repercussions? It's a one-way street with people who behave like that, we all know it. I guarantee you I can offend and get a bad reaction out of anyone who says "anything goes."
    - krageon 5y ago
      > I just don't know how you can say things like this when professional environments like Activision-Blizzard exist You don't agree people should leave Activision-Blizzard? I'm not convinced all the drama actually improved the company, though it was probably very satisfying to see for some folks. > I do NOT want that at work, and I think I am entitled to [...] That's a valid feeling, but nobody else is obliged to give that to you. You find a company that works for you, or you adapt to the one that you want to work for you. You don't go to war with the culture of a company just because something you feel entitled to isn't yet there. > I guarantee you I can offend and get a bad reaction out of anyone who says "anything goes." Yes, and there's nothing wrong with bad reactions. I literally said "you talk about it, rib back or leave". If you are incapable of solving your issues that way and find some sort of middle ground when someone really feels you stepped over the line, I think you have some growing up to do. That said, I recognise it doesn't mesh with a lot of folks' feelings on the matter and that's fine. I can live with that. I hope you can too. I think it's reasonable to have conversations like these at work. Just like you can have them anywhere else. If conversations about it are had and you have thoughts on whether or not they should be had, you should be heard. Then the other party is free to do with that what they want. That's how life works.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Yep exactly. Insisting that the world has to change so that you don’t get upset is crazy.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  They don’t. What happens in practice is that people get upset but choose not to make a big deal out of it. They recognise that we are all different and have different opinions and values. Most people are anti-fragile and can handle being a bit upset. Expecting the world to conform to your values is an example of extreme narcissism.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  People in practice choose who they want to be with based on shared values and behaviour. I can’t stand hypocrites, religions fanatics, Trump lovers, or fanatical left/right leaning people. So I choose not to spend time with people like that. However I am not going to insist that they change their behaviour because I get upset listening to them. That would be extremely narcissistic of me.

otterley 5y ago

Then how do millions of people manage to accomplish this every single day? Also, statements like this come across as a justification for not even trying. I hope that's not what you intend.

nec4b 5y ago
Maybe they are boring or maybe you don't have the means to hear what millions of people say every single day?
krageon 5y ago
They accomplish it because the folks around them are normal human beings that don't completely fly off the handle when something they don't like is said by someone else. You talk about it, rib back or leave. It's not rocket science.
- otterley 5y ago
  That's possible, but a more likely explanation is that most people know better than to make inappropriate jokes about their colleagues. In my 30-year-long career, the number of people I've observed making such jokes is far outweighed by the number of people who maintain a professional demeanor.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Let me give you an example: Let’s say (for arguments sake) that I got upset reading your comment. Following your logic it is now your fault that I am upset. So you need to change your behaviour until I am no longer upset. Can you see how impractical/impossible that is? Any opinion you have might upset somebody. So the only way to not upset anybody is to stay silent.
    - otterley 5y ago
      You're not following my logic, because it's not what I said, or what I mean. We're talking specifically about off-color jokes about work colleagues, not factual statements like "I ate an apple" or uncontroversial personal opinions like "I like cheese."
      - mbrodersen 5y ago
        “I like cheese” will be offensive and perhaps upsetting to some vegans. So better not talk about food at work. The same with pretty much any subject you can think of. Making the work environment or any other environment non-upsetting to everybody at all time is impossible. Somebody gets promoted instead of you: now you are upset. So let’s ban promoting people. The CEO makes 1000x more money than you while golfing every day? That upsets a lot of people. So let’s ban that. Some people are better dresses than you at work. How upsetting. Let’s all wear identical clothes. I could go on. But that might upset somebody somewhere.
        Forgeties79 5y ago
        I get why this “could” happen but I find it hard to believe you think that’s how things shake out even 1% of the time. You’re spiking the conversation with a vaguely-slippery-slope argument rooted in niche theoretical scenarios.
        mbrodersen 5y ago
        Not at all. I have experienced co-workers getting upset over things like that. Leading to heated arguments and bad feelings. My point is that what you happens to think is offensive and what isn’t does not match what others find offensive. So trying to ban everything that might offend somebody somewhere will lead to everything being banned. It won’t just be your particular pet ban list.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  I just don't know how you can say things like this when professional environments like Activision-Blizzard exist. You act like it's either "everything we say can be said without any social consequence" or "everyone is offended by everything all the time," when the reality is it's a sliding scale based on context. I have a higher tolerance for things with a small group of friends than I do in the workplace. I will talk about religion, politics, get heated/passionate, etc. in a friend-context. I do NOT want that at work, and I think I am entitled to a workplace where people have to self-censor a bit in an effort to keep the peace. I do it every day around conservatives who get their feathers ruffled if I say something bad about the GOP/Trump, what makes them so special that they can talk about whatever they want whenever they want and expect NO social repercussions? It's a one-way street with people who behave like that, we all know it. I guarantee you I can offend and get a bad reaction out of anyone who says "anything goes."
  - krageon 5y ago
    > I just don't know how you can say things like this when professional environments like Activision-Blizzard exist You don't agree people should leave Activision-Blizzard? I'm not convinced all the drama actually improved the company, though it was probably very satisfying to see for some folks. > I do NOT want that at work, and I think I am entitled to [...] That's a valid feeling, but nobody else is obliged to give that to you. You find a company that works for you, or you adapt to the one that you want to work for you. You don't go to war with the culture of a company just because something you feel entitled to isn't yet there. > I guarantee you I can offend and get a bad reaction out of anyone who says "anything goes." Yes, and there's nothing wrong with bad reactions. I literally said "you talk about it, rib back or leave". If you are incapable of solving your issues that way and find some sort of middle ground when someone really feels you stepped over the line, I think you have some growing up to do. That said, I recognise it doesn't mesh with a lot of folks' feelings on the matter and that's fine. I can live with that. I hope you can too. I think it's reasonable to have conversations like these at work. Just like you can have them anywhere else. If conversations about it are had and you have thoughts on whether or not they should be had, you should be heard. Then the other party is free to do with that what they want. That's how life works.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Yep exactly. Insisting that the world has to change so that you don’t get upset is crazy.
mbrodersen 5y ago
They don’t. What happens in practice is that people get upset but choose not to make a big deal out of it. They recognise that we are all different and have different opinions and values. Most people are anti-fragile and can handle being a bit upset. Expecting the world to conform to your values is an example of extreme narcissism.
mbrodersen 5y ago
People in practice choose who they want to be with based on shared values and behaviour. I can’t stand hypocrites, religions fanatics, Trump lovers, or fanatical left/right leaning people. So I choose not to spend time with people like that. However I am not going to insist that they change their behaviour because I get upset listening to them. That would be extremely narcissistic of me.