4 ms·

What are things that you would say in the 1990's that you wouldn't feel comfortable saying today?

by ssully 5y ago

dataangel 5y ago
Can't speak for parent but I have refrained from discussions of things people have been cancelled for even when I agree what is leading to the cancelling is horrific, because the consequences of getting misinterpreted are too grave. Even asking a clarifying question for something you genuinely don't know could be misinterpreted as a dog whistle. It's hard to blame people for that because sometimes clarifying questions really are feigned ignorance meant to sink time or provoke, but at the same time there is a growing sentiment on Twitter and elsewhere that choosing the most charitable interpretation in discussion is actually bad and empowers bad actors. What you get is a situation where nobody trusts anybody.
jimbokun 5y ago
Lol, obviously if I typed it here it would mean I'm comfortable saying it, so it's a Catch-22 isn't it?
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  If you can't explicitly say it, can you at least describe in what ways it is "less free than, say, the 1990s?" If not, the comment loses value.
  - jimbokun 5y ago
    In the 90s the culturally most influential people tended to mock censors and championed being “politically incorrect”. Al and Tipper Gore were roundly mocked for the record rating system they championed. R rated movies were far more successful at the box office, with lots of questionable content by today’s standards. Pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable to say was considered cool. Today, the academic and cultural power brokers are the biggest champions of shutting down “objectionable” speech.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      I appreciate the followup. > Al and Tipper Gore were roundly mocked for the record rating system they championed. Which has a direct mirror in the mocking of Republicans who are currently trying to ban books and ideas (CRT) they don't like. A lot of your idea rests on the concept of "culturally influential people" pushing these actions. Again, I don't see the evidence of that, seems like a boogeyman. > R rated movies were far more successful at the box office, with lots of questionable content by today’s standards. Odd to compare 90s box office to today's box office given the impacts of COVID and streaming. We didn't have Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu, Paramount, HBO Max, Disney Plus, and more. You would need to add all the R-rated movies from those platforms to make a comparison. Either way, 4 of the 5 highest grossing R-rated movies (inflation adjusted) came out after 2000 [1]. > Today, the academic and cultural power brokers are the biggest champions of shutting down “objectionable” speech. We definitely hear more complaining about it, today. I haven't seen evidence that it actually occurs more frequently. If anything, I see the opposite influence in the race to ban scary books and transgender people. Those ideas aren't coming from "cultural" leaders or "academics". That said, it is far easier to be gay or transgendered today than the 90s. We also just had a President who described people as ‘fat pigs,’ ‘dogs,’ ‘slobs,’ and ‘disgusting animals.’ He also 'told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees …” [2] I don't think that would have been a good electoral strategy in the 90s, probably would have gotten him "cancelled." [1] https://www.the-numbers.com/market/mpaa-rating/R-(US) https://www.the-numbers.com/market/mpaa-rating/R-(US) [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-co...
      - jimbokun 5y ago
        The link to R rated movie statistics shows a steady drop in marketshare, excluding a weird blip in 2020. Probably an artifact of Covid? Trump is the chief catalyst of Cancel Culture, in my opinion. His violation of every norm of decency and blatant cruelty created a backlash and a desire for retaliation for anyone seen to be in the same camp as Trump.
        5y ago
noduerme 5y ago
Anything that called bullshit on political correctness, and anything not politically correct. I'm not afraid to say so here, but I would be if I were on social media.

What are things that you would say in the 1990's that you wouldn't feel comfortable saying today?

by ssully 5y ago

What are things that you would say in the 1990's that you wouldn't feel comfortable saying today?

Can't speak for parent but I have refrained from discussions of things people have been cancelled for even when I agree what is leading to the cancelling is horrific, because the consequences of getting misinterpreted are too grave. Even asking a clarifying question for something you genuinely don't know could be misinterpreted as a dog whistle. It's hard to blame people for that because sometimes clarifying questions really are feigned ignorance meant to sink time or provoke, but at the same time there is a growing sentiment on Twitter and elsewhere that choosing the most charitable interpretation in discussion is actually bad and empowers bad actors. What you get is a situation where nobody trusts anybody.

jimbokun 5y ago

Lol, obviously if I typed it here it would mean I'm comfortable saying it, so it's a Catch-22 isn't it?

long_time_gone 5y ago
If you can't explicitly say it, can you at least describe in what ways it is "less free than, say, the 1990s?" If not, the comment loses value.
- jimbokun 5y ago
  In the 90s the culturally most influential people tended to mock censors and championed being “politically incorrect”. Al and Tipper Gore were roundly mocked for the record rating system they championed. R rated movies were far more successful at the box office, with lots of questionable content by today’s standards. Pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable to say was considered cool. Today, the academic and cultural power brokers are the biggest champions of shutting down “objectionable” speech.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    I appreciate the followup. > Al and Tipper Gore were roundly mocked for the record rating system they championed. Which has a direct mirror in the mocking of Republicans who are currently trying to ban books and ideas (CRT) they don't like. A lot of your idea rests on the concept of "culturally influential people" pushing these actions. Again, I don't see the evidence of that, seems like a boogeyman. > R rated movies were far more successful at the box office, with lots of questionable content by today’s standards. Odd to compare 90s box office to today's box office given the impacts of COVID and streaming. We didn't have Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu, Paramount, HBO Max, Disney Plus, and more. You would need to add all the R-rated movies from those platforms to make a comparison. Either way, 4 of the 5 highest grossing R-rated movies (inflation adjusted) came out after 2000 [1]. > Today, the academic and cultural power brokers are the biggest champions of shutting down “objectionable” speech. We definitely hear more complaining about it, today. I haven't seen evidence that it actually occurs more frequently. If anything, I see the opposite influence in the race to ban scary books and transgender people. Those ideas aren't coming from "cultural" leaders or "academics". That said, it is far easier to be gay or transgendered today than the 90s. We also just had a President who described people as ‘fat pigs,’ ‘dogs,’ ‘slobs,’ and ‘disgusting animals.’ He also 'told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees …” [2] I don't think that would have been a good electoral strategy in the 90s, probably would have gotten him "cancelled." [1] https://www.the-numbers.com/market/mpaa-rating/R-(US) https://www.the-numbers.com/market/mpaa-rating/R-(US) [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-correctness-how-the-right-invented-phantom-enemy-donald-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/30/political-co...
    - jimbokun 5y ago
      The link to R rated movie statistics shows a steady drop in marketshare, excluding a weird blip in 2020. Probably an artifact of Covid? Trump is the chief catalyst of Cancel Culture, in my opinion. His violation of every norm of decency and blatant cruelty created a backlash and a desire for retaliation for anyone seen to be in the same camp as Trump.
      - 5y ago

noduerme 5y ago

Anything that called bullshit on political correctness, and anything not politically correct. I'm not afraid to say so here, but I would be if I were on social media.