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> the modality of mass mob boycotts I was watching the news this morning and they were talking about the latest company that's boycotting Russia in response to

> the modality of mass mob boycotts I was watching the news this morning and they were talking about the latest company that's boycotting Russia in response to the social media storm. It occurred to me that governments are becoming increasingly irrelevant. They don't have to impose sanctions (and their own rules make it difficult to do so) - the Twitter mob is deciding who to banish. It's a form of democracy, I guess - but one without any checks or balances or regulations.

jimbokun 5y ago
A handful of tech companies arguably have far more power to regulate speech than any government.
- guelo 5y ago
  Not universally true, Putin and Xi Jinping have more power than tech companies in their countries. America decided 231 years ago that private actors would have more power over speech than the government.
- krapp 5y ago
  The counterargument to that, of course, is that a handful of tech companies can't actually make your speech illegal, make their competition illegal, arrest you, imprison you, ban your speech across an entire country, burn your literature or have you and your ethic/religious/political group shot and dumped into shallow graves. I mean, sure... getting banned from Twitter is momentarily annoying but Twitter having far more power to regulate speech than the entity that writes the laws that define Twitter's existence, that claims a monopoly on violence, and that in many cases directly controls the media and censors the internet? No. It's a common argument but I've never really found it a compelling one.
  - gopher_space 5y ago
    > It's a common argument but I've never really found it a compelling one. You can literally make your own twitter any time you want. My charitable view is that people are actually complaining about a monopoly on attention. It's an interesting subject but doesn't have anything to do with speech.
    - RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
      > You can literally make your own twitter any time you want. Until cloud companies decide to stop hosting you and registrars refuse to register your domain. But of course you can also make your own cloud company and your own domain registrar as well.
      - Meekro 5y ago
        > But of course you can also make your own cloud company and your own domain registrar as well. Until your upstream network provider decides to drop you (this happened to Epik, temporarily killing the whole company until they dropped 8chan). But of course you could also make your own backbone ISP.
        krapp 5y ago
        Epik was hosting platforms that contained extremist content, encouraged and celebrated mass violence and allowed conspirators to plan sedition against the government. Yes, if you're doing that, you should expect that some businesses may choose to reconsider their relationship with you. It's not a problem even most garden variety racist assholes on the internet are likely to have, though. Also, 8chan is doing fine.
      - wanderer_ 5y ago
        While we're at it, let's just make an entirely new IP infrastructure.
- paganel 5y ago
  Hopefully Russia banning FB will be just the start. I say that even though my highest upvoted submission since I've been on this website is a denunciation of my than Government apparently wanting to censor FB posts related to protests against it. That was back in 2017, I've since changed opinion when it comes to social networks and their vicious effects on our polities (be it a democracy or an autocracy).
Terry_Roll 5y ago
> It occurred to me that governments are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I've been thinking this for quite a few years now. >the Twitter mob is deciding who to banish. It's a form of democracy, I guess - but one without any checks or balances or regulations. Or swarms of bots shaping public opinion run by just a few people? As long as Govt's allow encryption, over the telecoms networks in their countries, the sooner govts become irrelevant.
dylan604 5y ago
> It's a form of democracy, I guess It's not much different than the old historical mobs with pitch forks and torches, only there's a slightly lower potential to physical harm.
mook 5y ago
> latest company that's boycotting Russia Is it really companies boycotting Russia? Or is it that they're no longer doing business with people in Russia due to the sanctions (and therefore the likelihood that there would be no way to get paid), with some pretty marketing speak wrapped around it?

jimbokun 5y ago

A handful of tech companies arguably have far more power to regulate speech than any government.

guelo 5y ago
Not universally true, Putin and Xi Jinping have more power than tech companies in their countries. America decided 231 years ago that private actors would have more power over speech than the government.
krapp 5y ago
The counterargument to that, of course, is that a handful of tech companies can't actually make your speech illegal, make their competition illegal, arrest you, imprison you, ban your speech across an entire country, burn your literature or have you and your ethic/religious/political group shot and dumped into shallow graves. I mean, sure... getting banned from Twitter is momentarily annoying but Twitter having far more power to regulate speech than the entity that writes the laws that define Twitter's existence, that claims a monopoly on violence, and that in many cases directly controls the media and censors the internet? No. It's a common argument but I've never really found it a compelling one.
- gopher_space 5y ago
  > It's a common argument but I've never really found it a compelling one. You can literally make your own twitter any time you want. My charitable view is that people are actually complaining about a monopoly on attention. It's an interesting subject but doesn't have anything to do with speech.
  - RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
    > You can literally make your own twitter any time you want. Until cloud companies decide to stop hosting you and registrars refuse to register your domain. But of course you can also make your own cloud company and your own domain registrar as well.
    - Meekro 5y ago
      > But of course you can also make your own cloud company and your own domain registrar as well. Until your upstream network provider decides to drop you (this happened to Epik, temporarily killing the whole company until they dropped 8chan). But of course you could also make your own backbone ISP.
      - krapp 5y ago
        Epik was hosting platforms that contained extremist content, encouraged and celebrated mass violence and allowed conspirators to plan sedition against the government. Yes, if you're doing that, you should expect that some businesses may choose to reconsider their relationship with you. It's not a problem even most garden variety racist assholes on the internet are likely to have, though. Also, 8chan is doing fine.
    - wanderer_ 5y ago
      While we're at it, let's just make an entirely new IP infrastructure.
paganel 5y ago
Hopefully Russia banning FB will be just the start. I say that even though my highest upvoted submission since I've been on this website is a denunciation of my than Government apparently wanting to censor FB posts related to protests against it. That was back in 2017, I've since changed opinion when it comes to social networks and their vicious effects on our polities (be it a democracy or an autocracy).

Terry_Roll 5y ago

> It occurred to me that governments are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I've been thinking this for quite a few years now. >the Twitter mob is deciding who to banish. It's a form of democracy, I guess - but one without any checks or balances or regulations. Or swarms of bots shaping public opinion run by just a few people? As long as Govt's allow encryption, over the telecoms networks in their countries, the sooner govts become irrelevant.

dylan604 5y ago

> It's a form of democracy, I guess It's not much different than the old historical mobs with pitch forks and torches, only there's a slightly lower potential to physical harm.

mook 5y ago

> latest company that's boycotting Russia Is it really companies boycotting Russia? Or is it that they're no longer doing business with people in Russia due to the sanctions (and therefore the likelihood that there would be no way to get paid), with some pretty marketing speak wrapped around it?