4 ms·

Putting your money where your mouth is, is probably the only way to obtain acceptance for semi-autonomous driving systems. I imagine airplane manufacturers hav

Putting your money where your mouth is, is probably the only way to obtain acceptance for semi-autonomous driving systems. I imagine airplane manufacturers have long been on the hook if their autopilot engages Kill All Humans mode, despite the best efforts of Boeing's lawyers to blame some of the humans their software killed.

belter 5y ago
Lot's of disclaimers. Plus what happens if the system disengages and you crash 5 sec after because you were not expecting to? Technically they are not responsible anymore it seems. From the article: "...Handing over driving responsibility completely requires extremely particular circumstances. Right now, Drive Pilot can only engage at speeds under 40 mph (60 km/h in Germany) on limited-access divided highways with no stoplights, roundabouts, or other traffic control systems, and no construction zones. Eligible roads must be mapped by Mercedes for Drive Pilot use (similar to GM SuperCruise); the automaker has already mapped every such highway in Germany, and most of those in Nevada and California. The system will only operate during daytime, in reasonably clear weather, without overhead obstructions. Inclement weather, construction zones, tunnels, and emergency vehicles will all trigger a handover warning. And no, you can't close your eyes or go to sleep while it operates..."
- Limeray 5y ago
  The car gives you a 10 seconds heads up. From the article: "[...] Unlike all currently available driver-assist systems, Drive Pilot is designed to give drivers a 10-second warning before switching off; engineers had to make sure that, in every situation, the system would safely and faultlessly hand over control. [...]"
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Technically they are not responsible anymore it seems. No, technically whether they or liable or not reverts to normal principles of product liability, rather than their special acceptance of liability. But manufacturers liability for harms caused by their products, while varying in detail from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, tend to be pretty broad in most of the West (incl. the US, despite it's otherwise weak consumer laws.)
- cge 5y ago
  Are there even any limited-access divided highways in California where speeds under 40 mph are safe? I'm not sure what they would have mapped. As the default speed limit for such a highway would presumably be 65 mph (and traffic usually much faster), anywhere with such lowered speeds would presumably have special circumstances that would probably make it unsuitable. The guaranteed 10 second handoff is impressive, however.
avalys 5y ago
Autopilots in airplanes have nothing to do with autonomous driving. Airplane autopilots are so simple they they can be implemented with entirely analog circuits. They are simple feedback control loops that operate off a single scalar variable in each axis. There is ample time for the pilot to correct any “mistakes” the autopilot makes. There is no expectation that the autopilot operates independently of the pilot’s supervision and judgement. In terms of decision-making and autonomy and liability - an airplane autopilot is really analogous to cruise control in a car, nothing more. It operates the flight controls to maintain simple parameters chosen by the pilot, and that’s all.
- belter 5y ago
  Not only that, Pilot training assumes Autopilot can disengage at any time.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    On top of that, aviation autopilots operate in one of the most controlled and stable environments. Ground based individual traffic is the polar opposite of that.
    - samhw 5y ago
      As aviation people eloquently put it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_sky_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_sky_theory I think there should be a correlative 'small road theory', if only to underscore the difference.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        It seems the non-existence of a small-road-theory is in itself an problem when it comes to self-driving cars...
  - fastball 5y ago
    Which is why (imo) Autopilot was a spot-on name for Tesla's initial driverless feature.
tailspin2019 5y ago
> Kill All Humans mode I think they discovered that it was the pilots who were accidentally leaning on the that switch when getting up for a coffee break. Terrible decision to put it right next to an armrest...

belter 5y ago

Lot's of disclaimers. Plus what happens if the system disengages and you crash 5 sec after because you were not expecting to? Technically they are not responsible anymore it seems. From the article: "...Handing over driving responsibility completely requires extremely particular circumstances. Right now, Drive Pilot can only engage at speeds under 40 mph (60 km/h in Germany) on limited-access divided highways with no stoplights, roundabouts, or other traffic control systems, and no construction zones. Eligible roads must be mapped by Mercedes for Drive Pilot use (similar to GM SuperCruise); the automaker has already mapped every such highway in Germany, and most of those in Nevada and California. The system will only operate during daytime, in reasonably clear weather, without overhead obstructions. Inclement weather, construction zones, tunnels, and emergency vehicles will all trigger a handover warning. And no, you can't close your eyes or go to sleep while it operates..."

Limeray 5y ago
The car gives you a 10 seconds heads up. From the article: "[...] Unlike all currently available driver-assist systems, Drive Pilot is designed to give drivers a 10-second warning before switching off; engineers had to make sure that, in every situation, the system would safely and faultlessly hand over control. [...]"
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Technically they are not responsible anymore it seems. No, technically whether they or liable or not reverts to normal principles of product liability, rather than their special acceptance of liability. But manufacturers liability for harms caused by their products, while varying in detail from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, tend to be pretty broad in most of the West (incl. the US, despite it's otherwise weak consumer laws.)
cge 5y ago
Are there even any limited-access divided highways in California where speeds under 40 mph are safe? I'm not sure what they would have mapped. As the default speed limit for such a highway would presumably be 65 mph (and traffic usually much faster), anywhere with such lowered speeds would presumably have special circumstances that would probably make it unsuitable. The guaranteed 10 second handoff is impressive, however.

avalys 5y ago

Autopilots in airplanes have nothing to do with autonomous driving. Airplane autopilots are so simple they they can be implemented with entirely analog circuits. They are simple feedback control loops that operate off a single scalar variable in each axis. There is ample time for the pilot to correct any “mistakes” the autopilot makes. There is no expectation that the autopilot operates independently of the pilot’s supervision and judgement. In terms of decision-making and autonomy and liability - an airplane autopilot is really analogous to cruise control in a car, nothing more. It operates the flight controls to maintain simple parameters chosen by the pilot, and that’s all.

belter 5y ago
Not only that, Pilot training assumes Autopilot can disengage at any time.
- hef19898 5y ago
  On top of that, aviation autopilots operate in one of the most controlled and stable environments. Ground based individual traffic is the polar opposite of that.
  - samhw 5y ago
    As aviation people eloquently put it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_sky_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_sky_theory I think there should be a correlative 'small road theory', if only to underscore the difference.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      It seems the non-existence of a small-road-theory is in itself an problem when it comes to self-driving cars...
- fastball 5y ago
  Which is why (imo) Autopilot was a spot-on name for Tesla's initial driverless feature.

tailspin2019 5y ago

> Kill All Humans mode I think they discovered that it was the pilots who were accidentally leaning on the that switch when getting up for a coffee break. Terrible decision to put it right next to an armrest...