15 ms·

Librem 5: First Impressions

296 points by jstanley 5y ago

marcodiego 5y ago
"WiFi works, no setup required beyond selecting a network and entering the password. Calling works, no setup required beyond installing a SIM card and rebooting. SMS works, no setup required beyond installing a SIM card and rebooting." Interesting, possibly useful as a daily driver. Also: link for the best pro comment about linux phones I've read on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26080871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26080871
- frankbreetz 5y ago
  Battery life seems to be the biggest thing holding it back from a daily driver for myself. Afternoon to 10pm with light use, so around 8 hours. Would be curious to see how long it last with maps and music going.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Around 8-10 hours is what I usually see myself as well. Up to 16 hours with everything off and idling (but without suspend, as that's not enabled yet). [edit] I've been listening to music via Bluetooth on it for past three hours and it's at 75% right now.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    Using several batteries seems to be the best option... but Purism doesn't seem to sell external battery chargers ?
- branon 5y ago
  Thanks for the link. Most of those points are still true, except for the middle three about SMS/MMS. If your distro ships the latest version of Chatty alongside mmsd-tng[0], SMS as well as MMS (both bidirectional) work supremely well, I trialed it as a daily driver for all of last month and didn't drop a single SMS/MMS. MMS attachments (images, didn't try video), group chats, everything was fine. I still had to configure APN settings manually, but there was no faffing about on the command line, it just worked. All the other points, though, yeah... those are still accurate. [0] https://gitlab.com/kop316/mmsd https://gitlab.com/kop316/mmsd Edit for clarity: this comment (and the link in the parent) references the PinePhone, not the Librem 5, though they're roughly comparable devices
  - kop316 5y ago
    I'm glad to hear MMS works so well for you! Usually other than my own usage, I don't hear too often about folks for whom it works for, usually only issues or help supporting it. Chatty used to use a libpurple plugin, but the dev realized the issues that came with it (as the old comment outlined), and it was moved into Chatty proper, which also allowed for a much cleaner SMS/MMS implementation too. > MMS attachments (images, didn't try video), group chats, everything was fine. MMS on Chatty actually supports arbietrary attachments, so you could send a binary file, a PDF, Video, whatever. Android and iOS will not understand them, but you can send it to another Librem 5 or Pinephone. One neat thing I tried was to use GPG over MMS. It was successful, though very manually intensive. There was thought into making GPG over MMS transparent in Chatty: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/671 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/671
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
  I'm curious how the pinephone pro compares, I've been thinking of buying it.
  - ge96 5y ago
    I have it (explorer edition), it's more powerful but right now camera does not work. Has a problem of waking from sleep too. I've tried different setups eg. Manjaro/KDE (default), Arch/Mobian Phosh. KDE is more like a phone, Phosh is "more stable" and particularly my interest external display which is buggy. Regarding battery I have now just started to remove them from the phone rather than putting it in Airplane mode because it still dies too fast. The squad [0] I have Mobian/Phosh running on SD card, see the 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM [1] I use Tmobile for service cheap sms/call only plan I don't use it as a daily driver yet, like install an email client and things like that. Was more interested in docked computing as a desktop. I know about Samsung Dex but I'm still onboard for a new OS, I'm particularly annoyed with forced bloat/permission issues (some understandable). [0] https://i.imgur.com/5ngUibq.png https://i.imgur.com/5ngUibq.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/A2x3x1t.png https://i.imgur.com/A2x3x1t.png
  - kop316 5y ago
    The Pinephone Pro's software support is will a WIP. It mostly works, but there are still quite a few quirks before I would feel comfortable using at as a daily driver. (For comparision, I have no qualms using a Pinephone or Librem 5 as a daily driver, I currently am using my Librem 5 as my main phone).
  - cookiengineer 5y ago
    Can recommend to try out SXMO [1] which is very lightweight and doesn't have the same long lags as phosh has. [1] https://sxmo.org https://sxmo.org
- croutonwagon 5y ago
  I would be curious if this works as in "associated and holds on for dear life to 1 AP" Or "is able to roam across a house with a few AP's or a business with many"
seba_dos1 5y ago
> If you don't care that your phone is spying on you, then the Librem 5 is not for you. I don't agree - you may not care about spying much, but you can still want a handy fully hackable GNU/Linux computing device in your pocket as your mobile phone, that belongs to you and not the vendor; in which case, the Librem 5 may be the perfect choice for you as well :) > Backups (...) "Unable to find supported SSH command" Hah, sounds like a missing package dependency! Most likely missed because, well, who doesn't install ssh on their phone right away anyway? ;) > I installed telegram-desktop with apt and it automatically shows up in the app launcher, which is a good sign, although it doesn't work. Seems like `qtwayland5` package needs to be installed, otherwise Qt apps go through XWayland. I know that people are using telegram-desktop successfully. > but by this time it was a bit darker, and this was the best I managed to do: You may be interested in this blog post about how to take the most from Librem 5 camera: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-photo-processing-tutorial/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-photo-processing-tutorial/ > It's more annoying than struggling with the autofocus on the OnePlus One. There's an update coming that changes the focus scale in a way that makes it much easier to work with. Still not exactly pleasant, but it's definitely better :) > I can't find an option to turn off notification sounds short of turning the volume down to 0. It's in the quick settings accessible from the top bar - a bell icon allows you to toggle notifications between audible, vibration-only or completely silent. > The browser has no "stop" button. It's in the hamburger menu. > the "please take me to the launcher" arrow being mere pixels away from the "please input a space" button That's being taken care of, as the current implementation was always meant to be temporary - both top and bottom bars are supposed to be operated by swiping: https://social.librem.one/@agx/107220158614198549 https://social.librem.one/@agx/107220158614198549 Overall, glad to hear that you're happy with the phone :) Thanks for sharing!
- etbe 5y ago
  By default qtwayland5 is not installed, should this be considered a bug?
k__ 5y ago
Do such "proper Linux" devices run Android apps?
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  I'm running Android app of my bank on my Librem 5 via Anbox. It's rough, but it works for me - YMMV.
  - k__ 5y ago
    Rough means?
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      Takes some time to boot Android in the container, app compatibility is hit-or-miss, Android apps can't really access the hardware (cameras, sensors etc.), you need to take care to not keep the container running in the background so it doesn't needlessly eat battery up, stuff like that. You can set up Anbox on your PC and see how that works. It's the same thing on the phone.
      - k__ 5y ago
        I used Bluestacks to play Android games on Windows, which was quite nice. But I don't know if a full emulator is a good idea on a smartphone.
        seba_dos1 5y ago
        It's a Linux container, so no emulation there - but it's still a fully separate user space that communicates with the rest of the system via a bridge in the same way a virtual machine does. There's also Waydroid, which works by implementing things like Wayland/PulseAudio clients directly inside Android compositor/sound system, but I haven't ran it on the Librem 5 yet (I know that some people are using it on the PinePhone).
        lights0123 5y ago
braingenious 5y ago
I laughed out loud at this: “In February 2018 I placed an order for a Librem 5. Today it finally arrived.”
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  For full context, it was a preorder for a crowdfunded device that was still in development. It started shipping in 2020, but the preorder queue is still being fulfilled (it was slowed down a lot due to the pandemic and its still ongoing chip shortage).
  - mike-cardwell 5y ago
    I had one on pre-order. There were multiple delays even before the pandemic started. The first delay when the pandemic started was the last straw for me and I got myself a refund.
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      Yes, the initial projected release date was in 2019. It got delayed even before the pandemic for several reasons and in the end the final version was finished and started shipping late 2020 (with the first batches shipped to people who opted to receive them in late 2019), but at this point it turned out to be problematic to produce in enough quantity due to chip shortage, which is why the shipments are still ongoing.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  There are even people who ordered in 2017 who still haven't got their phones. Purism also doesn't want to give out refunds (despite having a refund policy). It takes people hundreds of days to get a refund.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    All 2017 orders should be shipped by now or are being shipped right now: https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...
macrael 5y ago
I would argue that maps are the killer app for phones, this phone having a garbage map app is a death knell.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Every app is the killer app for someone. I hardly ever use maps on my phone.
  - aflag 5y ago
    That may be, but I suspect most users expect a browser, a way to message friends (whatsapp or telegram in most western countries) and a maps app. Games are popular too. Being able to call and send SMS is secondary. I think not having a good maps is a big issue, hopefully they'll be able to patch that eventually. Until then, maybe google maps is not too bad on the mobile browser?
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      GNOME Maps definitely needs and has a pending redesign to make it fit better on a phone screen. Meanwhile, Pure Maps has worked really well for me that one time I needed navigation during the past year :) https://flathub.org/apps/details/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps https://flathub.org/apps/details/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps
      - tristan957 5y ago
        GNOME Maps will receive an overhaul when it is ported to GTK4 + libadwaita. Currently a lot of development is going into the new map library libshumate[0]. [0]: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libshumate https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libshumate
    - clan 5y ago
      While I do agree a maps app is very important indeed I find this statement completely bonkers: > Being able to call and send SMS is secondary. This is the basic definition of a mobile phone for me [1]. We can all have our opinions on what the "killer app" is. And some may rather want a pocket sized computer. The old grumpy man in me wants to shout "Get off my lawn" - please do not redefine what a "phone" is. How much we all may hate telcos they at least have ensured world wide communications. I accept the fact that many today are willing to trade that away to each their own favourite corporate garden be it Whatsapp, Telegram, Facetime et. al. However it does not a phone make. Sweet sweet E.164 [2]. It might be an unfair interpretation but as I read it calls should even be secondary to games! So in my mind you argue the focus should be on a tablet [3]. You might be wishing for another device class which is fair. But this kind of redefinition I find troublesome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.164 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.164 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer
user_7832 5y ago
It's an interesting article (and thanks to the author for putting it out) but I wonder what their end goal is. Is it to have a 100% secure/private phone? I'm not sure if that's possible with the proprietary firmware (though the hardware kill switches are certainly a good idea). Most importantly, the questionable usability means that either the Librem team needs to work much more, or... this becomes a "smarter" alternative to a dumb brick without giving data to Big Tech. (Ignoring the fact that a sim card automatically makes you lose privacy to the government/telecos). When comparing against something like a Pixel running GrapheneOS, it's honestly a bit more puzzling to me. Granted, I'm definitely not the audience for this, but with G_OS you can do most things that a regular phone can do, without taking several minutes to install Firefox. As much as I love privacy (going as far as having a semi-random username), this phone is a bit puzzling. I hope someone can throw more light on this.
- blihp 5y ago
  The general idea behind any 'pure' Linux phone is to have a device that you can trust at least as much as a desktop running Linux. Security is definitely a key aspect for many. But it's also the flexibility of not being locked in to anything on the software side. Ideally, it also extends the useful life of the device as when vulnerabilities and bugs are found, they can be fixed rather than junking the device for lack of updates. It's still pretty early days re: 'full' Linux on mobile and so it doesn't look like much yet... it takes time. Desktop Linux didn't look like much in 1994 either. I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS but I assume it follows the usual model when repurposing Android devices of taking various closed source blobs (i.e. drivers etc) and rebuilding the open source bits around them? If so, this approach usually locks you into a Linux kernel version to remain compatible with the blobs which limits you on kernel features and fixes as well as who knows what exposure the blobs have to offer, which also will likely never get updates.
  - user_7832 5y ago
    You've got valid points regarding the Linux usability aspect and kernel updates (I'm not exactly sure what Graphene does regarding kernels). But in such a context wouldn't it be more useful to say have a dumb phone and a separate laptop/tablet running Linux? I'm just playing the devil's advocate/trying to understand why someone would actually use it. And yes if desktop Linux gets big that'll certainly make this entire comment seem stupid (which would be pretty nice:)
qchris 5y ago
I'm most curious how this impression is going to age over the next year or two, considering the new competition with the Pinephone Pro that's coming out. While Kudos to Purism is certainly due for developing the Librem 5 in the first place, and for kickstarting projects like Phosh[2] which is now used by many mobile Linux distros, they're really struggled (as mentioned re: timeline in this article) with shipping hardware. Conversely, Pine64 hardware seems to have a pretty dedicated developer community among the various mobile Linux distros, and considering the significantly improved specs of the Pinephone Pro over the original model, I'm wondering how many people will opt for the even-more-expensive Librem 5 in the future after the Pro has been out for a bit and some of the early-adopter kinks have been worked out, considering the issues Purism has had seemed to have with reliably getting inventory out. [1] https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/ [2] https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Software_Reference/Environments/Phosh.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Software_Reference/Environ...
- kop316 5y ago
  > considering the new competition with the Pinephone Pro that's coming out Heh, with how the developers cooperate, you would never know there was competition. But seriously, if you do want to fund Mobile Linux, buy a Librem 5. Purism funds dedicated GNOME/Phosh/etc. devs to work on making Mobile Linux a polish experience, and many of them also help to make sure it works on the Pinephone/Pinephone Pro. Heck, sometimes I think many of their employees spend more time helping out Mobian users on a Pinephone than they do Librem 5 users. As much as I like Pine64 (I think making a $150 Linux Phone was an amazing idea!), they exclusively only fund the hardware development. Drew Devault has, IMO, a good overview of criticisms of Pine64: https://drewdevault.com/2022/01/18/Pine64s-weird-priorities.html https://drewdevault.com/2022/01/18/Pine64s-weird-priorities....
  - bumbledraven 5y ago
    HN discussion on Devault’s essay: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30009452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30009452
  - ognarb 5y ago
SkyMarshal 5y ago
> The battery life seems short. I'm pretty sure that I charged it up to 99% when I plugged it in this afternoon. It's now 10pm and I just went to check something in Firefox and found that the battery has died already. And I haven't exactly been using it heavily. It's possible that I misunderstood how much I had charged it, but so far this is a bad sign. Battery life is an area that may be difficult for smaller phone makers to compete on. I think Apple especially puts a ton of engineering effort and coordination into making iOS and their apps work efficiently with their hardware, reducing complexity, runtime cycles, and power consumption as much as possible, on top of already highly-efficient ARM hardware. Over years of doing that (kaizen), the result is optimized hardware/software fusion with industry-leading battery life. But it seems like it takes a non-trivial amount of additional engineering time and effort to accomplish this, that will be difficult to match by smaller mobile tech startups. I hope the open source community around Librem and Pine will be able to replicate that effort, but I'm not sure this kind of consistent incremental upgrade work is attractive enough to volunteer FOSS developers. And being maximally effective at it most certainly requires the parent company to coordinate the effort across hardware, software, internal teams, and external volunteers.
- rapind 5y ago
  I'd love an e-ink phone. That would go a long way towards solving battery issues.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Usually, battery issues with hardware like that are more about idle time and reaching deep sleep states than active usage time with screen on. The latter is quite reasonable on the Librem 5, the former could be improved.
    - p1necone 5y ago
      An e-ink display would allow for an always on clock though, which would be pretty sweet.
mangix 5y ago
Not my experience. With this phone, even doing basic stuff is painful. I still haven't figured out a way to listen to music.
unobatbayar 5y ago
They should just remove the camere entirely. Would save me the effort of trying to cover it with stickers or removing it. At this point, fliphones are very tempting.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Librem 5 has hardware kill switches for camera/microphone, bluetooth/WiFi, and modem.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gorgoiler 5y ago
I wish VoIP was better supported on phones, but I’m guessing the phone manufacturers wouldn’t dare annoy the big carriers by offering alternatives? Circuits on packets on circuits on packets is a problematic thing, I guess? I don’t really want SMS, MMS, or raw calls if I can use email, IM, and VoIP. Even in iOS the VoIP clients are pretty thin on the ground. Bria is still the best one? It feels like “wifi calling” is probably VoIP but it without the ability to change your sip provider. Argh!
- linmob 5y ago
  The GNOME Calls app in the Librem 5 can do SIP calls, and the SMS/MMS app Chatty can do XMPP (OMEMO encryption is cuddly though) and Matrix support is being worked on (as in not enabled by default yet).
DeathArrow 5y ago
The hardware isn't the best. It has many usability problems. But if it will get traction, things will improve for sure. Not only Librem might get better phones out, but it might inspire competitors.
- fsflover 5y ago
  It already inspired Pinephone.
DeathArrow 5y ago
"Those who would give up Freedom, to purchase a little temporary Convenience, deserve neither Freedom nor Convenience." I know that, but Librem it's still too rough for me. I hope it will get better in the next iterations and I applaud those who buy it now, knowing they are also funding R&D for better future phones.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  This quote is one of the most taken out of context. It does not mean what people think it means. It is also naive. But I agree, Librem does look a bit raw to me. I'm ok with 'apt get'ting stuff on my PC. Not on a phone
  - fsflover 5y ago
    It doesn't matter what was the intention of this quote. Its new meaning is pretty much right.
    - raverbashing 5y ago
      Here's another relevant saying: "those with glass ceilings shouldn't throw stones" We do exchange "freedom" (whatever vague definition of it) for security and convenience a lot. Even without realizing it.
carom 5y ago
I also backed this in 2018 and have not received it yet. Absolutely insane.
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...
Razengan 5y ago
A FOSS tablet/phablet-sized device with no phone/SIM functionality would be great. Discard the camera too. It would reduce the complexity and price. I can’t recall the last time I really needed to make or take a “phone” call. That shit’s legacy now. Just give me all the messaging apps and a good browser. Perhaps a clamshell design with a physical keyboard.
- linmob 5y ago
  You can always get a PinePhone and switch those kill switches off ;-) Delivering all the messaging apps on a GNU/Linux device seems like a difficult task though, from what I’ve gathered about apps that others and I tested [0]. [0] https://linuxphoneapps.org https://linuxphoneapps.org
camillomiller 5y ago
- M4v3R 5y ago
  Also from the looks of it (the photos OP took of his new phone) the screen looks terrible. Maybe it's just the camera he used, but the screen seems to have a very visible blue tint and the viewing angles are not great). It looks like it was taken from a 2010 phone :(. And yeah, camera being pretty much unusable in a phone sold in 2022 is not very good. I think most times I actually use my smartphone is to take pictures and videos nowadays, and I'm probably not alone in this.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    You can't really assess phone screen quality from a bunch of random photos at all. And it's both ways - I have tried taking photos to show some screen issues during driver development, it just doesn't work. To my eye, it's a pretty high quality IPS screen with great viewing angles. It doesn't compete with mainstream phones in DPI, but it looks good.
- blenderdt 5y ago
  Your comment is hard but I have to agree. I care a lot about privacy and freedom but this phone sounds like a Beta version of something from over 10 years ago. Sad, because I really like to have such a smartphone. But not at the cost of being frustrated all the time.
Hackbraten 5y ago
PSA for anyone outside the US: you may never be able to buy a replacement battery for your Librem 5 due to IATA restrictions. So the Linux kernel may support the Librem 5 for life, but what’s even the point of all that effort if the phone is just going to irrevocably die on you after a couple of years? You may want to keep that in mind before you buy one. I ordered a Librem 5 last year but got aware of the issue only recently.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > you may never be able to buy a replacement battery for your Librem 5 due to IATA restrictions. Except if Purism opens a store in Europe. And they intend to (not that there is a big progress currently).
fileoffset 5y ago
I have been waiting 3.5 years for my Libre5 so I would caution anyone before purchasing that it will most likely be even more out of date if/when it actually arrives They dont say how many they are producing, nor how big their backlog is, nor how long it will be until they catch up, etc. Pay us now and ONE DAY in the next few years we may deliver... who knows?
- fsflover 5y ago
  https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...

296 points by jstanley 5y ago

"WiFi works, no setup required beyond selecting a network and entering the password. Calling works, no setup required beyond installing a SIM card and rebooting. SMS works, no setup required beyond installing a SIM card and rebooting." Interesting, possibly useful as a daily driver. Also: link for the best pro comment about linux phones I've read on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26080871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26080871

frankbreetz 5y ago
Battery life seems to be the biggest thing holding it back from a daily driver for myself. Afternoon to 10pm with light use, so around 8 hours. Would be curious to see how long it last with maps and music going.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Around 8-10 hours is what I usually see myself as well. Up to 16 hours with everything off and idling (but without suspend, as that's not enabled yet). [edit] I've been listening to music via Bluetooth on it for past three hours and it's at 75% right now.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  Using several batteries seems to be the best option... but Purism doesn't seem to sell external battery chargers ?
branon 5y ago
Thanks for the link. Most of those points are still true, except for the middle three about SMS/MMS. If your distro ships the latest version of Chatty alongside mmsd-tng[0], SMS as well as MMS (both bidirectional) work supremely well, I trialed it as a daily driver for all of last month and didn't drop a single SMS/MMS. MMS attachments (images, didn't try video), group chats, everything was fine. I still had to configure APN settings manually, but there was no faffing about on the command line, it just worked. All the other points, though, yeah... those are still accurate. [0] https://gitlab.com/kop316/mmsd https://gitlab.com/kop316/mmsd Edit for clarity: this comment (and the link in the parent) references the PinePhone, not the Librem 5, though they're roughly comparable devices
- kop316 5y ago
  I'm glad to hear MMS works so well for you! Usually other than my own usage, I don't hear too often about folks for whom it works for, usually only issues or help supporting it. Chatty used to use a libpurple plugin, but the dev realized the issues that came with it (as the old comment outlined), and it was moved into Chatty proper, which also allowed for a much cleaner SMS/MMS implementation too. > MMS attachments (images, didn't try video), group chats, everything was fine. MMS on Chatty actually supports arbietrary attachments, so you could send a binary file, a PDF, Video, whatever. Android and iOS will not understand them, but you can send it to another Librem 5 or Pinephone. One neat thing I tried was to use GPG over MMS. It was successful, though very manually intensive. There was thought into making GPG over MMS transparent in Chatty: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/671 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/671
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
I'm curious how the pinephone pro compares, I've been thinking of buying it.
- ge96 5y ago
  I have it (explorer edition), it's more powerful but right now camera does not work. Has a problem of waking from sleep too. I've tried different setups eg. Manjaro/KDE (default), Arch/Mobian Phosh. KDE is more like a phone, Phosh is "more stable" and particularly my interest external display which is buggy. Regarding battery I have now just started to remove them from the phone rather than putting it in Airplane mode because it still dies too fast. The squad [0] I have Mobian/Phosh running on SD card, see the 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM [1] I use Tmobile for service cheap sms/call only plan I don't use it as a daily driver yet, like install an email client and things like that. Was more interested in docked computing as a desktop. I know about Samsung Dex but I'm still onboard for a new OS, I'm particularly annoyed with forced bloat/permission issues (some understandable). [0] https://i.imgur.com/5ngUibq.png https://i.imgur.com/5ngUibq.png [1] https://i.imgur.com/A2x3x1t.png https://i.imgur.com/A2x3x1t.png
- kop316 5y ago
  The Pinephone Pro's software support is will a WIP. It mostly works, but there are still quite a few quirks before I would feel comfortable using at as a daily driver. (For comparision, I have no qualms using a Pinephone or Librem 5 as a daily driver, I currently am using my Librem 5 as my main phone).
- cookiengineer 5y ago
  Can recommend to try out SXMO [1] which is very lightweight and doesn't have the same long lags as phosh has. [1] https://sxmo.org https://sxmo.org
croutonwagon 5y ago
I would be curious if this works as in "associated and holds on for dear life to 1 AP" Or "is able to roam across a house with a few AP's or a business with many"

seba_dos1 5y ago

> If you don't care that your phone is spying on you, then the Librem 5 is not for you. I don't agree - you may not care about spying much, but you can still want a handy fully hackable GNU/Linux computing device in your pocket as your mobile phone, that belongs to you and not the vendor; in which case, the Librem 5 may be the perfect choice for you as well :) > Backups (...) "Unable to find supported SSH command" Hah, sounds like a missing package dependency! Most likely missed because, well, who doesn't install ssh on their phone right away anyway? ;) > I installed telegram-desktop with apt and it automatically shows up in the app launcher, which is a good sign, although it doesn't work. Seems like `qtwayland5` package needs to be installed, otherwise Qt apps go through XWayland. I know that people are using telegram-desktop successfully. > but by this time it was a bit darker, and this was the best I managed to do: You may be interested in this blog post about how to take the most from Librem 5 camera: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-photo-processing-tutorial/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-photo-processing-tutorial/ > It's more annoying than struggling with the autofocus on the OnePlus One. There's an update coming that changes the focus scale in a way that makes it much easier to work with. Still not exactly pleasant, but it's definitely better :) > I can't find an option to turn off notification sounds short of turning the volume down to 0. It's in the quick settings accessible from the top bar - a bell icon allows you to toggle notifications between audible, vibration-only or completely silent. > The browser has no "stop" button. It's in the hamburger menu. > the "please take me to the launcher" arrow being mere pixels away from the "please input a space" button That's being taken care of, as the current implementation was always meant to be temporary - both top and bottom bars are supposed to be operated by swiping: https://social.librem.one/@agx/107220158614198549 https://social.librem.one/@agx/107220158614198549 Overall, glad to hear that you're happy with the phone :) Thanks for sharing!

etbe 5y ago
By default qtwayland5 is not installed, should this be considered a bug?

k__ 5y ago

Do such "proper Linux" devices run Android apps?

seba_dos1 5y ago
I'm running Android app of my bank on my Librem 5 via Anbox. It's rough, but it works for me - YMMV.
- k__ 5y ago
  Rough means?
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Takes some time to boot Android in the container, app compatibility is hit-or-miss, Android apps can't really access the hardware (cameras, sensors etc.), you need to take care to not keep the container running in the background so it doesn't needlessly eat battery up, stuff like that. You can set up Anbox on your PC and see how that works. It's the same thing on the phone.
    - k__ 5y ago
      I used Bluestacks to play Android games on Windows, which was quite nice. But I don't know if a full emulator is a good idea on a smartphone.
      - seba_dos1 5y ago
        It's a Linux container, so no emulation there - but it's still a fully separate user space that communicates with the rest of the system via a bridge in the same way a virtual machine does. There's also Waydroid, which works by implementing things like Wayland/PulseAudio clients directly inside Android compositor/sound system, but I haven't ran it on the Librem 5 yet (I know that some people are using it on the PinePhone).
      - lights0123 5y ago

braingenious 5y ago

I laughed out loud at this: “In February 2018 I placed an order for a Librem 5. Today it finally arrived.”

seba_dos1 5y ago
For full context, it was a preorder for a crowdfunded device that was still in development. It started shipping in 2020, but the preorder queue is still being fulfilled (it was slowed down a lot due to the pandemic and its still ongoing chip shortage).
- mike-cardwell 5y ago
  I had one on pre-order. There were multiple delays even before the pandemic started. The first delay when the pandemic started was the last straw for me and I got myself a refund.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Yes, the initial projected release date was in 2019. It got delayed even before the pandemic for several reasons and in the end the final version was finished and started shipping late 2020 (with the first batches shipped to people who opted to receive them in late 2019), but at this point it turned out to be problematic to produce in enough quantity due to chip shortage, which is why the shipments are still ongoing.
charcircuit 5y ago
There are even people who ordered in 2017 who still haven't got their phones. Purism also doesn't want to give out refunds (despite having a refund policy). It takes people hundreds of days to get a refund.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  All 2017 orders should be shipped by now or are being shipped right now: https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...

macrael 5y ago

I would argue that maps are the killer app for phones, this phone having a garbage map app is a death knell.

seba_dos1 5y ago
Every app is the killer app for someone. I hardly ever use maps on my phone.
- aflag 5y ago
  That may be, but I suspect most users expect a browser, a way to message friends (whatsapp or telegram in most western countries) and a maps app. Games are popular too. Being able to call and send SMS is secondary. I think not having a good maps is a big issue, hopefully they'll be able to patch that eventually. Until then, maybe google maps is not too bad on the mobile browser?
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    GNOME Maps definitely needs and has a pending redesign to make it fit better on a phone screen. Meanwhile, Pure Maps has worked really well for me that one time I needed navigation during the past year :) https://flathub.org/apps/details/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps https://flathub.org/apps/details/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps
    - tristan957 5y ago
      GNOME Maps will receive an overhaul when it is ported to GTK4 + libadwaita. Currently a lot of development is going into the new map library libshumate[0]. [0]: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libshumate https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libshumate
  - clan 5y ago
    While I do agree a maps app is very important indeed I find this statement completely bonkers: > Being able to call and send SMS is secondary. This is the basic definition of a mobile phone for me [1]. We can all have our opinions on what the "killer app" is. And some may rather want a pocket sized computer. The old grumpy man in me wants to shout "Get off my lawn" - please do not redefine what a "phone" is. How much we all may hate telcos they at least have ensured world wide communications. I accept the fact that many today are willing to trade that away to each their own favourite corporate garden be it Whatsapp, Telegram, Facetime et. al. However it does not a phone make. Sweet sweet E.164 [2]. It might be an unfair interpretation but as I read it calls should even be secondary to games! So in my mind you argue the focus should be on a tablet [3]. You might be wishing for another device class which is fair. But this kind of redefinition I find troublesome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.164 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.164 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer

user_7832 5y ago

It's an interesting article (and thanks to the author for putting it out) but I wonder what their end goal is. Is it to have a 100% secure/private phone? I'm not sure if that's possible with the proprietary firmware (though the hardware kill switches are certainly a good idea). Most importantly, the questionable usability means that either the Librem team needs to work much more, or... this becomes a "smarter" alternative to a dumb brick without giving data to Big Tech. (Ignoring the fact that a sim card automatically makes you lose privacy to the government/telecos). When comparing against something like a Pixel running GrapheneOS, it's honestly a bit more puzzling to me. Granted, I'm definitely not the audience for this, but with G_OS you can do most things that a regular phone can do, without taking several minutes to install Firefox. As much as I love privacy (going as far as having a semi-random username), this phone is a bit puzzling. I hope someone can throw more light on this.

blihp 5y ago
The general idea behind any 'pure' Linux phone is to have a device that you can trust at least as much as a desktop running Linux. Security is definitely a key aspect for many. But it's also the flexibility of not being locked in to anything on the software side. Ideally, it also extends the useful life of the device as when vulnerabilities and bugs are found, they can be fixed rather than junking the device for lack of updates. It's still pretty early days re: 'full' Linux on mobile and so it doesn't look like much yet... it takes time. Desktop Linux didn't look like much in 1994 either. I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS but I assume it follows the usual model when repurposing Android devices of taking various closed source blobs (i.e. drivers etc) and rebuilding the open source bits around them? If so, this approach usually locks you into a Linux kernel version to remain compatible with the blobs which limits you on kernel features and fixes as well as who knows what exposure the blobs have to offer, which also will likely never get updates.
- user_7832 5y ago
  You've got valid points regarding the Linux usability aspect and kernel updates (I'm not exactly sure what Graphene does regarding kernels). But in such a context wouldn't it be more useful to say have a dumb phone and a separate laptop/tablet running Linux? I'm just playing the devil's advocate/trying to understand why someone would actually use it. And yes if desktop Linux gets big that'll certainly make this entire comment seem stupid (which would be pretty nice:)

qchris 5y ago

I'm most curious how this impression is going to age over the next year or two, considering the new competition with the Pinephone Pro that's coming out. While Kudos to Purism is certainly due for developing the Librem 5 in the first place, and for kickstarting projects like Phosh[2] which is now used by many mobile Linux distros, they're really struggled (as mentioned re: timeline in this article) with shipping hardware. Conversely, Pine64 hardware seems to have a pretty dedicated developer community among the various mobile Linux distros, and considering the significantly improved specs of the Pinephone Pro over the original model, I'm wondering how many people will opt for the even-more-expensive Librem 5 in the future after the Pro has been out for a bit and some of the early-adopter kinks have been worked out, considering the issues Purism has had seemed to have with reliably getting inventory out. [1] https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/ [2] https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Software_Reference/Environments/Phosh.html https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Software_Reference/Environ...

kop316 5y ago
> considering the new competition with the Pinephone Pro that's coming out Heh, with how the developers cooperate, you would never know there was competition. But seriously, if you do want to fund Mobile Linux, buy a Librem 5. Purism funds dedicated GNOME/Phosh/etc. devs to work on making Mobile Linux a polish experience, and many of them also help to make sure it works on the Pinephone/Pinephone Pro. Heck, sometimes I think many of their employees spend more time helping out Mobian users on a Pinephone than they do Librem 5 users. As much as I like Pine64 (I think making a $150 Linux Phone was an amazing idea!), they exclusively only fund the hardware development. Drew Devault has, IMO, a good overview of criticisms of Pine64: https://drewdevault.com/2022/01/18/Pine64s-weird-priorities.html https://drewdevault.com/2022/01/18/Pine64s-weird-priorities....
- bumbledraven 5y ago
  HN discussion on Devault’s essay: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30009452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30009452
- ognarb 5y ago

SkyMarshal 5y ago

> The battery life seems short. I'm pretty sure that I charged it up to 99% when I plugged it in this afternoon. It's now 10pm and I just went to check something in Firefox and found that the battery has died already. And I haven't exactly been using it heavily. It's possible that I misunderstood how much I had charged it, but so far this is a bad sign. Battery life is an area that may be difficult for smaller phone makers to compete on. I think Apple especially puts a ton of engineering effort and coordination into making iOS and their apps work efficiently with their hardware, reducing complexity, runtime cycles, and power consumption as much as possible, on top of already highly-efficient ARM hardware. Over years of doing that (kaizen), the result is optimized hardware/software fusion with industry-leading battery life. But it seems like it takes a non-trivial amount of additional engineering time and effort to accomplish this, that will be difficult to match by smaller mobile tech startups. I hope the open source community around Librem and Pine will be able to replicate that effort, but I'm not sure this kind of consistent incremental upgrade work is attractive enough to volunteer FOSS developers. And being maximally effective at it most certainly requires the parent company to coordinate the effort across hardware, software, internal teams, and external volunteers.

rapind 5y ago
I'd love an e-ink phone. That would go a long way towards solving battery issues.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Usually, battery issues with hardware like that are more about idle time and reaching deep sleep states than active usage time with screen on. The latter is quite reasonable on the Librem 5, the former could be improved.
  - p1necone 5y ago
    An e-ink display would allow for an always on clock though, which would be pretty sweet.

mangix 5y ago

Not my experience. With this phone, even doing basic stuff is painful. I still haven't figured out a way to listen to music.

unobatbayar 5y ago

They should just remove the camere entirely. Would save me the effort of trying to cover it with stickers or removing it. At this point, fliphones are very tempting.

fsflover 5y ago
Librem 5 has hardware kill switches for camera/microphone, bluetooth/WiFi, and modem.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gorgoiler 5y ago

I wish VoIP was better supported on phones, but I’m guessing the phone manufacturers wouldn’t dare annoy the big carriers by offering alternatives? Circuits on packets on circuits on packets is a problematic thing, I guess? I don’t really want SMS, MMS, or raw calls if I can use email, IM, and VoIP. Even in iOS the VoIP clients are pretty thin on the ground. Bria is still the best one? It feels like “wifi calling” is probably VoIP but it without the ability to change your sip provider. Argh!

linmob 5y ago
The GNOME Calls app in the Librem 5 can do SIP calls, and the SMS/MMS app Chatty can do XMPP (OMEMO encryption is cuddly though) and Matrix support is being worked on (as in not enabled by default yet).

DeathArrow 5y ago

The hardware isn't the best. It has many usability problems. But if it will get traction, things will improve for sure. Not only Librem might get better phones out, but it might inspire competitors.

fsflover 5y ago
It already inspired Pinephone.

DeathArrow 5y ago

"Those who would give up Freedom, to purchase a little temporary Convenience, deserve neither Freedom nor Convenience." I know that, but Librem it's still too rough for me. I hope it will get better in the next iterations and I applaud those who buy it now, knowing they are also funding R&D for better future phones.

raverbashing 5y ago
This quote is one of the most taken out of context. It does not mean what people think it means. It is also naive. But I agree, Librem does look a bit raw to me. I'm ok with 'apt get'ting stuff on my PC. Not on a phone
- fsflover 5y ago
  It doesn't matter what was the intention of this quote. Its new meaning is pretty much right.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    Here's another relevant saying: "those with glass ceilings shouldn't throw stones" We do exchange "freedom" (whatever vague definition of it) for security and convenience a lot. Even without realizing it.

carom 5y ago

I also backed this in 2018 and have not received it yet. Absolutely insane.

fsflover 5y ago
https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...

Razengan 5y ago

A FOSS tablet/phablet-sized device with no phone/SIM functionality would be great. Discard the camera too. It would reduce the complexity and price. I can’t recall the last time I really needed to make or take a “phone” call. That shit’s legacy now. Just give me all the messaging apps and a good browser. Perhaps a clamshell design with a physical keyboard.

linmob 5y ago
You can always get a PinePhone and switch those kill switches off ;-) Delivering all the messaging apps on a GNU/Linux device seems like a difficult task though, from what I’ve gathered about apps that others and I tested [0]. [0] https://linuxphoneapps.org https://linuxphoneapps.org

camillomiller 5y ago

M4v3R 5y ago
Also from the looks of it (the photos OP took of his new phone) the screen looks terrible. Maybe it's just the camera he used, but the screen seems to have a very visible blue tint and the viewing angles are not great). It looks like it was taken from a 2010 phone :(. And yeah, camera being pretty much unusable in a phone sold in 2022 is not very good. I think most times I actually use my smartphone is to take pictures and videos nowadays, and I'm probably not alone in this.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  You can't really assess phone screen quality from a bunch of random photos at all. And it's both ways - I have tried taking photos to show some screen issues during driver development, it just doesn't work. To my eye, it's a pretty high quality IPS screen with great viewing angles. It doesn't compete with mainstream phones in DPI, but it looks good.
blenderdt 5y ago
Your comment is hard but I have to agree. I care a lot about privacy and freedom but this phone sounds like a Beta version of something from over 10 years ago. Sad, because I really like to have such a smartphone. But not at the cost of being frustrated all the time.

Hackbraten 5y ago

PSA for anyone outside the US: you may never be able to buy a replacement battery for your Librem 5 due to IATA restrictions. So the Linux kernel may support the Librem 5 for life, but what’s even the point of all that effort if the phone is just going to irrevocably die on you after a couple of years? You may want to keep that in mind before you buy one. I ordered a Librem 5 last year but got aware of the issue only recently.

fsflover 5y ago
> you may never be able to buy a replacement battery for your Librem 5 due to IATA restrictions. Except if Purism opens a store in Europe. And they intend to (not that there is a big progress currently).

fileoffset 5y ago

I have been waiting 3.5 years for my Libre5 so I would caution anyone before purchasing that it will most likely be even more out of date if/when it actually arrives They dont say how many they are producing, nor how big their backlog is, nor how long it will be until they catch up, etc. Pay us now and ONE DAY in the next few years we may deliver... who knows?

fsflover 5y ago
https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/11272 https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112...