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"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginn

"Freedom fries" was always considered a joke and I never heard anyone ever use it except with dripping sarcasm. Everyone knew it was a joke from the very beginning. It also occurred when it was clear that with the emotions of 9/11 passed, that we had no real reason to invade Iraq other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. I was in high school at the time of the Iraq war and anti-war sentiment was strong (granted, I was also in my "rebellious phase" though I still hold to those opinions). Bands like System of a Down and A Perfect Circle had several anti-war protest songs. For the record, most people don't even say "French fries", you just say "fries" or specify the other kids of fries like "waffle fries" or "crinkle fries." French fries are implied by "fries".

grandmczeb 5y ago
This is how I remember it too. “Freedom Fries” and stunts like pouring French wine down the drain were widely seen as stupid. https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/08/nyregion/strained-relations-spilled-merlot-restaurateur-shows-displeasure-over-french.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/08/nyregion/strained-relatio... https://www.cc.com/video/9os75w/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-freedumb-food https://www.cc.com/video/9os75w/the-daily-show-with-jon-stew...
mytailorisrich 5y ago
This was not a joke. Certainly not for the people who actually renamed French fries to freedom fries. This was offensive and, frankly, racist. The guy who started it all: "In an interview about the name change, Rowland commented, "since the French are backing down [from the war], French fries and French everything needs to be banned." [1] I can tell you that some American commentators at the time were criticising the French position not to support the war in a way that pretty much "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" level. > other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. They knew they had no 'evidence'. The US government had decided to invade Iraq and this was all faked in order to establish a pretext with the public, additionally taking advantage of the post 9/11 context. This is all documented. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" Any phrases that came directly from the Simpsons can definitely be considered intended as jokes and parody (if not in very good taste, but this was before the Family Guy took tasteless even further).
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    Racism is not a joke and not banter. Maybe you are too young to remember what I'm referring to in my previous comment. There definitely was racist French-bashing from some. It's denying reality to claim that "freedom fries" were a joke. It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. The Simpsons are a satire but what they satirize is what some people really do and think. I only used the term from the Simpsons to say that this was really the level of some commentators, not as evidence. This was very clear. (would be more interesting to discuss the point than the Simpsons)
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > It's denying reality to claim that "freedom fries" were a joke. It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. The joke was on the people who took "freedom fries" seriously. There are definitely Americans who believe that, usually in red/right leaning America that many of us have no experience with but are we are definitely apt to ridicule and parody. > It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. Yes, that's why they are deserving of ridicule and parody by the Simpsons among others in the states. > The Simpsons are a satire but what they satirise is what some people really do and think. I think you understand, but for some reason you are misattributing intention.
      - mytailorisrich 5y ago
        I don't understand what you are trying to do... You acknowledge that some people took it seriously, that's all there is to it: it was not a joke. End of. I don't understand you arguing about me writing "cheese-eating surrender monkey", either. My point was obviously that some commentators pretty much thought that seriously when criticizing France. Edit: "some people", "some commentators", I have not generalized in any of my comments. But if those who started "freedom fries" and spread it did so seriously (and they did) then this was not a joke even if the majority ridiculed it. Edit 2: I have not used the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkey" as evidence, I used it just to say that this was pretty much the level of some commentators (even on so-called 'serious' TV). That was very clear.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Ya, I never remember freedom fries being anything but a joke, but then again most of us are leftward leaning (I assume) and have never lived in conservative places (like small town Texas) where those terms were taken seriously. Support for the war in Iraq was never really there (but again, from my perspective as a leftward leaning individual living in a relatively liberal area).
- valbaca 5y ago
  I lived in a small town in Texas (2nd Most Conservative city in the nation) and everyone across both aisles thought it was a joke. Granted, yes, I'm also a leftist.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
valbaca 5y ago
Oh, I did just remember there was a huge backlash in my hometown because of the Dixie Chicks speaking out against the war. My hometown was particularly upset b/c it was also the hometown of one of the Dixie Chicks.
giantg2 5y ago
It was and it wasn't a joke in restaurants and mess halls on military bases. It wasn't an outright joke, but wasn't hardcore either though.

grandmczeb 5y ago

This is how I remember it too. “Freedom Fries” and stunts like pouring French wine down the drain were widely seen as stupid. https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/08/nyregion/strained-relations-spilled-merlot-restaurateur-shows-displeasure-over-french.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/08/nyregion/strained-relatio... https://www.cc.com/video/9os75w/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-freedumb-food https://www.cc.com/video/9os75w/the-daily-show-with-jon-stew...

mytailorisrich 5y ago

This was not a joke. Certainly not for the people who actually renamed French fries to freedom fries. This was offensive and, frankly, racist. The guy who started it all: "In an interview about the name change, Rowland commented, "since the French are backing down [from the war], French fries and French everything needs to be banned." [1] I can tell you that some American commentators at the time were criticising the French position not to support the war in a way that pretty much "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" level. > other than a very loose set of connections and assumptions with very little hard evidence. They knew they had no 'evidence'. The US government had decided to invade Iraq and this was all faked in order to establish a pretext with the public, additionally taking advantage of the post 9/11 context. This is all documented. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" Any phrases that came directly from the Simpsons can definitely be considered intended as jokes and parody (if not in very good taste, but this was before the Family Guy took tasteless even further).
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Racism is not a joke and not banter. Maybe you are too young to remember what I'm referring to in my previous comment. There definitely was racist French-bashing from some. It's denying reality to claim that "freedom fries" were a joke. It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. The Simpsons are a satire but what they satirize is what some people really do and think. I only used the term from the Simpsons to say that this was really the level of some commentators, not as evidence. This was very clear. (would be more interesting to discuss the point than the Simpsons)
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > It's denying reality to claim that "freedom fries" were a joke. It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. The joke was on the people who took "freedom fries" seriously. There are definitely Americans who believe that, usually in red/right leaning America that many of us have no experience with but are we are definitely apt to ridicule and parody. > It was not a joke for those who started it and spread it. Yes, that's why they are deserving of ridicule and parody by the Simpsons among others in the states. > The Simpsons are a satire but what they satirise is what some people really do and think. I think you understand, but for some reason you are misattributing intention.
    - mytailorisrich 5y ago
      I don't understand what you are trying to do... You acknowledge that some people took it seriously, that's all there is to it: it was not a joke. End of. I don't understand you arguing about me writing "cheese-eating surrender monkey", either. My point was obviously that some commentators pretty much thought that seriously when criticizing France. Edit: "some people", "some commentators", I have not generalized in any of my comments. But if those who started "freedom fries" and spread it did so seriously (and they did) then this was not a joke even if the majority ridiculed it. Edit 2: I have not used the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkey" as evidence, I used it just to say that this was pretty much the level of some commentators (even on so-called 'serious' TV). That was very clear.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Ya, I never remember freedom fries being anything but a joke, but then again most of us are leftward leaning (I assume) and have never lived in conservative places (like small town Texas) where those terms were taken seriously. Support for the war in Iraq was never really there (but again, from my perspective as a leftward leaning individual living in a relatively liberal area).

valbaca 5y ago
I lived in a small town in Texas (2nd Most Conservative city in the nation) and everyone across both aisles thought it was a joke. Granted, yes, I'm also a leftist.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

valbaca 5y ago

Oh, I did just remember there was a huge backlash in my hometown because of the Dixie Chicks speaking out against the war. My hometown was particularly upset b/c it was also the hometown of one of the Dixie Chicks.

giantg2 5y ago

It was and it wasn't a joke in restaurants and mess halls on military bases. It wasn't an outright joke, but wasn't hardcore either though.