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Angela Merkal called this a destruction of national property, and they (CDU) extended life of plants 8-14 years. There were 17 plants at the time. Total produc

Angela Merkal called this a destruction of national property, and they (CDU) extended life of plants 8-14 years. There were 17 plants at the time. Total production that has been shutdown (baseload power) is around 19,689MW now post fukushima. They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? It's kind of mind boggling how much was shut down - the problem this has caused for electrification in germany is significant as now german electric prices are actually very high not low. Annual contracts for electricity are running 46 cents / kwH which is CRAZY if you want to electrify your country. France which is right next door, has much more annoying labor laws / high cost of labor is perhaps half that price.

orwin 5y ago
it was 21cts/kwH last year (but sold 18cts to EDF own competitors, the liberalizations laws in europe make no sense) so i guess less than half that price.
- tempnow987 5y ago
  My pricing was in US Dollars, so the french cost (if in euros) would be 24 cents or so. Still an amazing difference.
jacquesm 5y ago
> They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? Germany has 5.3 GW of installed solar, how can you be off by a factor of 1200?
- tempnow987 5y ago
  Sorry - yes, should be 5,800MW. They produced 51Twh/365/24 = 5.8GW in avg delivery. Nuclear generated it's power around the clock. I'm not sure solar is covering the evening peaks and the prices for electricity make going to things like heat pumps and electric dryers much more expensive than you'd expect in germany so the economic case for electrification in germany has started to run way way behind the case in other places that have kept nuclear in the mix.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The idea that baseload can only be provided with nuclear or with fossil fuels has long been debunked.
    - macspoofing 5y ago
      *fossil fuels, nuclear, hydro, geothermal - though the latter two need particular geography. What else is there?
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Overprovisioning and HVDC. Those two together can make a real dent into required installed baseline power.
        macspoofing 5y ago
        And yet they don't. This is the frustrating part of the discussion, because proponents will just name-drop every hypothetical technology. The actual reality is that nobody is actually doing it (using batteries as baseload), even though there is a political desperation to want to implement it. There is a reason why every natural gas company either supports and pushes wind/solar projects. Every large scale wind/solar deployment leads to a corresponding increase in natural gas investment. That should be a clue that there are some major (and insurmountable) issues with deploying batteries at grid-scale. It's sad this is a game that is being played on the public, where the public is made to believe wind/solar investment leads to less reliance on fossil fuels.

orwin 5y ago

it was 21cts/kwH last year (but sold 18cts to EDF own competitors, the liberalizations laws in europe make no sense) so i guess less than half that price.

tempnow987 5y ago
My pricing was in US Dollars, so the french cost (if in euros) would be 24 cents or so. Still an amazing difference.

jacquesm 5y ago

> They've been able to replace maybe 4MW's with solar at this point? Germany has 5.3 GW of installed solar, how can you be off by a factor of 1200?

tempnow987 5y ago
Sorry - yes, should be 5,800MW. They produced 51Twh/365/24 = 5.8GW in avg delivery. Nuclear generated it's power around the clock. I'm not sure solar is covering the evening peaks and the prices for electricity make going to things like heat pumps and electric dryers much more expensive than you'd expect in germany so the economic case for electrification in germany has started to run way way behind the case in other places that have kept nuclear in the mix.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  The idea that baseload can only be provided with nuclear or with fossil fuels has long been debunked.
  - macspoofing 5y ago
    *fossil fuels, nuclear, hydro, geothermal - though the latter two need particular geography. What else is there?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Overprovisioning and HVDC. Those two together can make a real dent into required installed baseline power.
      - macspoofing 5y ago
        And yet they don't. This is the frustrating part of the discussion, because proponents will just name-drop every hypothetical technology. The actual reality is that nobody is actually doing it (using batteries as baseload), even though there is a political desperation to want to implement it. There is a reason why every natural gas company either supports and pushes wind/solar projects. Every large scale wind/solar deployment leads to a corresponding increase in natural gas investment. That should be a clue that there are some major (and insurmountable) issues with deploying batteries at grid-scale. It's sad this is a game that is being played on the public, where the public is made to believe wind/solar investment leads to less reliance on fossil fuels.