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Even you don't know that. It is so difficult for many to accept that there are things they just cannot know or do not know that they don't know. It is also app

by _8j50 5y ago

Even you don't know that. It is so difficult for many to accept that there are things they just cannot know or do not know that they don't know. It is also apparently very difficult for some people to consider things from someone else's perspective. I don't mean people who are of your belief system only but also the people in the subject of the story also think like you "surely those secular westerners don't really believe everything suddenly decided to exist all on its own and that people are really well-bred apes?" My point is, a little humility and willingness to understand others goes a long way.

wonderwonder 5y ago
its a little hard to be willing to understand people that murder and mutilate others in an attempt to gain material wealth.
- prometheus76 5y ago
  Understanding them doesn't mean condoning what they do, or even sympathizing with it. It's obviously so real to them that they are willing to sacrifice the life of another human being in order to improve their own future. I agree that's reprehensible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to understand it.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    honestly, why? Would you or I understanding lead to some way to stop them doing it? I doubt it. Sometimes actions are egregious enough to stand on their own with no need for rationalization or understanding. They are simply wrong. Most peoples time would be best served simply condemning their actions and seeking to understand things that can benefit the world. With that said, its not hard to comprehend why they do it. People are a product of their environment and if they are raised believing in certain truths that shape their world view, they tend to hold onto those and ignore things that fly in the face of them. They pass those same truths on to their offspring.
    - ninjanomnom 5y ago
      Understanding is absolutely one of the best ways to change the behavior of others. Peoples' actions is the result differing forces on them like societal norms, laws, and expected outcomes. One of the best and only longterm solutions for behaviors you don't want is to make changes to the forces surrounding them. Without understanding the forces involved you risk having no effect on the problem or worse. If you're stuck in orbit around the earth and thrust towards the earth in an attempt to get home, you'll just waste a lot of energy and end up further away instead when you run out of fuel before you're done.
  - mixedCase 5y ago
    No. Under that pretense we could justify or at least unjustly minimize the significance of pretty much any atrocity. To piggyback an easy example off current affairs: "Russia can invade Ukraine because under their beliefs they're just one unified people who have been unjustly separated by western influences". There are beliefs who inflict evil upon this world and they must be socially condemned as such, and any crimes committed in the name of such beliefs should be punished with the full weight of the law. I would also personally argue that if the belief pertains to a cult, religion or similar group that encourages sharing the belief that lead to the crime, an additional penalty for criminal incitement should also apply; for any legislation where incitement is a thing that is.
    - Jcowell 5y ago
      Where is OP asking to justify or unjustify anything? Again the only thing they recommend is to at least understand. Not empathize, not sympathize, nor moralize. But understand. As programmers (and fields adjacent) it’s seems foolish to react to something before we even understand it.
- _8j50 5y ago
  Well,try hard then.
- troyvit 5y ago
  It's not a perfect parallel but circumcision is alive and well in the west.
saxonww 5y ago
No, there is no reason to have a little humility and willingness to understand people killing children for body parts to use in a magic ritual to earn money. There's no evidence that it works, there's no evidence that it should work, and on top of that, it's reprehensible.
- _8j50 5y ago
  There are people who think like you about abortions and wars caused by the west/east because of "democracy" as well. Outrage is fine, anger is ok but when you lack humility and refuse to understand others it turns into hatred, violence and misunderstanding. This is why the west is being divided so much on so many simple issues. Vaccines,politics, education, you name it. You are right, they are evil. Who cares why? The other side feels the the same, so what now? Go ahead and start killing then? Or maybe some 17 year old kid should wear a uniform and do it for you? I will never understand people that think this way. I remember a guy who was in the military getting angry at me when I said we should understand ISIS, to him the only thing we should do is bomb them, understanding meant undermining his country. How utterly foolish! People like this are fathers and mothers of tragedy. Even if all you want to do is to destroy the other side, isn't it best to understand them well so that you know how you can harm them with minimal risk and effort from you? Do you really think you can convince others what they do is wrong without understanding their beliefs and approaching them with humility so they can hear your perspective? Forget foreign places, if you live in democracy, this is literally your civic duty: to convince other voters of your views!
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > There are people who think like you about abortions and wars caused by the west/east because of "democracy" as well. Do they think abortions don't work?? I doubt it.
nkrisc 5y ago
But if you can make money appear out of a pot, why has no one ever demonstrated it happening? If someone has a charm that can make a person turn into a cat, it would be trivial to show that it works. > everything suddenly decided to exist all on its own and that people are really well-bred apes? Well they're the current theories with the best evidence. If someone can show me an alternative explanation for either that has more physical evidence and a compelling theory to explain it, I'm all ears.
- _8j50 5y ago
  > But if you can make money appear out of a pot, why has no one ever demonstrated it happening? It could be rare and conditional and the typical claim is it was demonstrated many times. What you are really asking is why can't it be reproduced ondemand with any condition. > If someone has a charm that can make a person turn into a cat, it would be trivial to show that it works. With many myths, it involves preconditions and activators. Not trivial. The underlying reason for the belief system is what sustains it, not the superficial activity you take at face value and evaluate against your way of thinking. > Well they're the current theories with the best evidence. If someone can show me an alternative explanation for either that has more physical evidence and a compelling theory to explain it, I'm all ears. Under your belief system where indviduals evaluate correctness of evidence and best theories are practically equivalent to fact that makes sense. Billions don't share your belief system but they do share a planet with you. Also, why would random people care about proving things to you, have yoy considered they just don't care if you accept their belief or not? Most of the time most believers of a belief system ask for respect and with that, for the curious they are open to explain it to you. Your pursuit of correctness and standards of reason can be different from others. Ultimately truth does not care what you believe but in your pursuit of truth, you must not consider others unworthy of your respect or understanding unless you have acheived knowledge of absolute and complete truth.

by _8j50 5y ago

wonderwonder 5y ago

its a little hard to be willing to understand people that murder and mutilate others in an attempt to gain material wealth.

prometheus76 5y ago
Understanding them doesn't mean condoning what they do, or even sympathizing with it. It's obviously so real to them that they are willing to sacrifice the life of another human being in order to improve their own future. I agree that's reprehensible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to understand it.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  honestly, why? Would you or I understanding lead to some way to stop them doing it? I doubt it. Sometimes actions are egregious enough to stand on their own with no need for rationalization or understanding. They are simply wrong. Most peoples time would be best served simply condemning their actions and seeking to understand things that can benefit the world. With that said, its not hard to comprehend why they do it. People are a product of their environment and if they are raised believing in certain truths that shape their world view, they tend to hold onto those and ignore things that fly in the face of them. They pass those same truths on to their offspring.
  - ninjanomnom 5y ago
    Understanding is absolutely one of the best ways to change the behavior of others. Peoples' actions is the result differing forces on them like societal norms, laws, and expected outcomes. One of the best and only longterm solutions for behaviors you don't want is to make changes to the forces surrounding them. Without understanding the forces involved you risk having no effect on the problem or worse. If you're stuck in orbit around the earth and thrust towards the earth in an attempt to get home, you'll just waste a lot of energy and end up further away instead when you run out of fuel before you're done.
- mixedCase 5y ago
  No. Under that pretense we could justify or at least unjustly minimize the significance of pretty much any atrocity. To piggyback an easy example off current affairs: "Russia can invade Ukraine because under their beliefs they're just one unified people who have been unjustly separated by western influences". There are beliefs who inflict evil upon this world and they must be socially condemned as such, and any crimes committed in the name of such beliefs should be punished with the full weight of the law. I would also personally argue that if the belief pertains to a cult, religion or similar group that encourages sharing the belief that lead to the crime, an additional penalty for criminal incitement should also apply; for any legislation where incitement is a thing that is.
  - Jcowell 5y ago
    Where is OP asking to justify or unjustify anything? Again the only thing they recommend is to at least understand. Not empathize, not sympathize, nor moralize. But understand. As programmers (and fields adjacent) it’s seems foolish to react to something before we even understand it.
_8j50 5y ago
Well,try hard then.
troyvit 5y ago
It's not a perfect parallel but circumcision is alive and well in the west.

saxonww 5y ago

No, there is no reason to have a little humility and willingness to understand people killing children for body parts to use in a magic ritual to earn money. There's no evidence that it works, there's no evidence that it should work, and on top of that, it's reprehensible.

_8j50 5y ago
There are people who think like you about abortions and wars caused by the west/east because of "democracy" as well. Outrage is fine, anger is ok but when you lack humility and refuse to understand others it turns into hatred, violence and misunderstanding. This is why the west is being divided so much on so many simple issues. Vaccines,politics, education, you name it. You are right, they are evil. Who cares why? The other side feels the the same, so what now? Go ahead and start killing then? Or maybe some 17 year old kid should wear a uniform and do it for you? I will never understand people that think this way. I remember a guy who was in the military getting angry at me when I said we should understand ISIS, to him the only thing we should do is bomb them, understanding meant undermining his country. How utterly foolish! People like this are fathers and mothers of tragedy. Even if all you want to do is to destroy the other side, isn't it best to understand them well so that you know how you can harm them with minimal risk and effort from you? Do you really think you can convince others what they do is wrong without understanding their beliefs and approaching them with humility so they can hear your perspective? Forget foreign places, if you live in democracy, this is literally your civic duty: to convince other voters of your views!
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > There are people who think like you about abortions and wars caused by the west/east because of "democracy" as well. Do they think abortions don't work?? I doubt it.

nkrisc 5y ago

But if you can make money appear out of a pot, why has no one ever demonstrated it happening? If someone has a charm that can make a person turn into a cat, it would be trivial to show that it works. > everything suddenly decided to exist all on its own and that people are really well-bred apes? Well they're the current theories with the best evidence. If someone can show me an alternative explanation for either that has more physical evidence and a compelling theory to explain it, I'm all ears.

_8j50 5y ago
> But if you can make money appear out of a pot, why has no one ever demonstrated it happening? It could be rare and conditional and the typical claim is it was demonstrated many times. What you are really asking is why can't it be reproduced ondemand with any condition. > If someone has a charm that can make a person turn into a cat, it would be trivial to show that it works. With many myths, it involves preconditions and activators. Not trivial. The underlying reason for the belief system is what sustains it, not the superficial activity you take at face value and evaluate against your way of thinking. > Well they're the current theories with the best evidence. If someone can show me an alternative explanation for either that has more physical evidence and a compelling theory to explain it, I'm all ears. Under your belief system where indviduals evaluate correctness of evidence and best theories are practically equivalent to fact that makes sense. Billions don't share your belief system but they do share a planet with you. Also, why would random people care about proving things to you, have yoy considered they just don't care if you accept their belief or not? Most of the time most believers of a belief system ask for respect and with that, for the curious they are open to explain it to you. Your pursuit of correctness and standards of reason can be different from others. Ultimately truth does not care what you believe but in your pursuit of truth, you must not consider others unworthy of your respect or understanding unless you have acheived knowledge of absolute and complete truth.