6 ms·

Yesterday I had to open Microsoft Edge for something that would only work in Edge, and lo-and-behold, Microsoft had taken my Xbox Game Pass sign-in and applied

Yesterday I had to open Microsoft Edge for something that would only work in Edge, and lo-and-behold, Microsoft had taken my Xbox Game Pass sign-in and applied to Edge, then informed me they are syncing all my browser history to their servers for my benefit.. I'm not sure how that sort of behaviour isn't a clear violation of all kinds of privacy laws in 2022.

userbinator 5y ago
I'm sure it was specified somewhere in the EULA that you were forced to agree to long ago while installing the OS. It's been a while since I've looked at it too, but I believe there's a clause in there that also permits them to change it at any time without telling you.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  One of the few really good things about some modern privacy laws is that this kind of defence carries almost zero weight. You don't get to do scummy things and then claim that the user "consented" because of some small print on page 50 of some document no-one ever reads before clicking the button they have to click in order to use the software they just paid for.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    But the problem is that in practice I still don’t see those laws being enforced in any meaningful manner. Case in point, Microsoft is doing this - they’re not stupid, they’ve reviewed the legal implications that and rightfully decided that they’ll benefit more than the penalty from enforcement if it ever happens. Same with Google, Facebook, etc.
    - Silhouette 5y ago
      They're starting to be enforced but obviously the regulators particularly in Europe are underfunded and there are a lot of bad actors to chase. I imagine Facebook and Google both rate higher than Microsoft for now. That doesn't mean there won't be significant penalties later, particularly as governments come to realise how lucrative penalising these big tech firms can be under the rules they've created for themselves.
      - hulitu 5y ago
        And there is also cortuption.
    - seanp2k2 5y ago
      It's funny how quickly they forget the lessons of https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329 and https://www.computerworld.com/article/2564087/european-commission-fines-microsoft--613m-in-antitrust-case.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2564087/european-commi... . I guess we need higher fines to get the message across.
      - hulitu 5y ago
        They (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, etc.) do not care about one payment of a couple of milions dollars.
        Silhouette 5y ago
        Do you understand that the potential fines for violations under some of the recent laws (notably the GDPR) have a few extra zeroes on that? The limiting factor at the moment seems to be a lack of resources for the regulators that are responsible for enforcing privacy rules. Obviously a big tech firm facing a fine that could run to hundreds of millions is like to exhaust their legal avenues for challenging it before handing over the cash. It's going to take time and money from the regulator's side to deal with those challenges before any big penalties get applied effectively.
        Nextgrid 5y ago
        > Do you understand that the potential fines for violations under some of the recent laws (notably the GDPR) have a few extra zeroes on that? That's been the case for 4 years now, none of these fines have occurred. The total amount of fines across all companies over those 4 years is barely above 1Bn. > The limiting factor at the moment seems to be a lack of resources for the regulators that are responsible for enforcing privacy rules Not just resources but also willingness. I have the feeling that nobody actually wants to enforce this and campaigning for doing so is a politically-risky move, as not only does your campaign rely on the same companies that would be fined, but those companies now control the majority of humanity's social fabric and can trivially restrict even organic sharing of information/links about your campaign. Worse: in the UK, there's been news about actually weakening the GDPR, based on the Culture Secretary being stupid (or having financial incentives for doing so) and actually believing the tech industry's vilification of the GDPR. Hint: if an industry making a huge chunk of its profit based on non-consensual data collection complains about data protection laws, it means the laws are actually working as designed. Most likely, this insanity will also go ahead, if it didn't already.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > You don't get to do [...] The response to every legal argument is "yes, you do" as long as you have enough money. Lo and behold, Microsoft is swimming in it.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Not only do they have enough money to begin with, but they're earning way more from this than any fine they can realistically expect (if a fine ever comes, that is).
thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
Just because a criminal hasn't been caught and sentenced doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime

userbinator 5y ago

I'm sure it was specified somewhere in the EULA that you were forced to agree to long ago while installing the OS. It's been a while since I've looked at it too, but I believe there's a clause in there that also permits them to change it at any time without telling you.

Silhouette 5y ago
One of the few really good things about some modern privacy laws is that this kind of defence carries almost zero weight. You don't get to do scummy things and then claim that the user "consented" because of some small print on page 50 of some document no-one ever reads before clicking the button they have to click in order to use the software they just paid for.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  But the problem is that in practice I still don’t see those laws being enforced in any meaningful manner. Case in point, Microsoft is doing this - they’re not stupid, they’ve reviewed the legal implications that and rightfully decided that they’ll benefit more than the penalty from enforcement if it ever happens. Same with Google, Facebook, etc.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    They're starting to be enforced but obviously the regulators particularly in Europe are underfunded and there are a lot of bad actors to chase. I imagine Facebook and Google both rate higher than Microsoft for now. That doesn't mean there won't be significant penalties later, particularly as governments come to realise how lucrative penalising these big tech firms can be under the rules they've created for themselves.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      And there is also cortuption.
  - seanp2k2 5y ago
    It's funny how quickly they forget the lessons of https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21684329 and https://www.computerworld.com/article/2564087/european-commission-fines-microsoft--613m-in-antitrust-case.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/2564087/european-commi... . I guess we need higher fines to get the message across.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      They (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, etc.) do not care about one payment of a couple of milions dollars.
      - Silhouette 5y ago
        Do you understand that the potential fines for violations under some of the recent laws (notably the GDPR) have a few extra zeroes on that? The limiting factor at the moment seems to be a lack of resources for the regulators that are responsible for enforcing privacy rules. Obviously a big tech firm facing a fine that could run to hundreds of millions is like to exhaust their legal avenues for challenging it before handing over the cash. It's going to take time and money from the regulator's side to deal with those challenges before any big penalties get applied effectively.
        Nextgrid 5y ago
        > Do you understand that the potential fines for violations under some of the recent laws (notably the GDPR) have a few extra zeroes on that? That's been the case for 4 years now, none of these fines have occurred. The total amount of fines across all companies over those 4 years is barely above 1Bn. > The limiting factor at the moment seems to be a lack of resources for the regulators that are responsible for enforcing privacy rules Not just resources but also willingness. I have the feeling that nobody actually wants to enforce this and campaigning for doing so is a politically-risky move, as not only does your campaign rely on the same companies that would be fined, but those companies now control the majority of humanity's social fabric and can trivially restrict even organic sharing of information/links about your campaign. Worse: in the UK, there's been news about actually weakening the GDPR, based on the Culture Secretary being stupid (or having financial incentives for doing so) and actually believing the tech industry's vilification of the GDPR. Hint: if an industry making a huge chunk of its profit based on non-consensual data collection complains about data protection laws, it means the laws are actually working as designed. Most likely, this insanity will also go ahead, if it didn't already.
- krageon 5y ago
  > You don't get to do [...] The response to every legal argument is "yes, you do" as long as you have enough money. Lo and behold, Microsoft is swimming in it.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Not only do they have enough money to begin with, but they're earning way more from this than any fine they can realistically expect (if a fine ever comes, that is).

thow-58d4e8b 5y ago

Just because a criminal hasn't been caught and sentenced doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime