6 ms·

> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. As If you have to go to college to become an adult. A lot of colle

> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. As If you have to go to college to become an adult. A lot of college programs seem like their purpose is for some very wealthy and sheltered children to become “cultured”, but that is completely unrelated to the skills needed to be a functioning adult or to take significant responsibilities in your life.

sammalloy 5y ago
Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. Contrary to what you have argued, becoming cultured (in other words, understanding the philosophy, ethics, history, and fundamental assumptions about how and why society functions) are essential skills for taking responsibility, and the lack of these skills is behind virtually every major deficiency in society. College and university were never supposed to be about job training. They were supposed to teach one how to learn so you could become a lifelong learner and continue your own education in any field you chose to pursue and to use those skills to benefit the society at large so that everyone can benefit from an increasing understanding of the world. Instead, what we have now, is an increasing focus on becoming a corporate employee, who devotes their life to marketing and selling products that society doesn’t need and are in fact increasingly destroying society and harming individual rights and lessening opportunity with each iteration. A higher education is increasingly designed for specialized corporate tasks that do not improve society and fail to solve the most pressing problems at hand.
- rayiner 5y ago
  > Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. Contrary to what you have argued, becoming cultured (in other words, understanding the philosophy, ethics, history, and fundamental assumptions about how and why society functions) Look at the marvels modern democracy has created with a population that mostly wasn’t college educated. Does democracy work better today, with vastly higher college graduation rates, than it did 30 years ago? Also, I have two step siblings in college and they aren’t learning any of those things. They’re learning fantasies that make them less well-equipped to deal with reality than their parents and grandparents who didn’t go to college.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Also, viz. your remarks about Bangladeshis and college: http://archive.prothom-alo.com/detail/news/67517 http://archive.prothom-alo.com/detail/news/67517
- lordnacho 5y ago
  That's what high school is for, you should already know a fair bit about government when you leave there. Likewise about lifelong learning.
- nsonha 5y ago
  "College and university were never supposed to be about job training. They were supposed to teach one how to learn so you could become a lifelong learner" I see little benefit in discussing how things should be instead of what they are. There are clearly forces that pivoted universities towards what they are today, telling people what university should be isn't gonna fix anything. More importantly, who decided university is the only place you could learn this, or that you could not become a life long learner long before going to university? It seems that institutional education is precisely what gives people the impression that there is such a thing as "stop learning" aka graduation.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > I see little benefit in discussing how things should be instead of what they are. There are clearly forces that pivoted universities towards what they are today, telling people what university should be isn't gonna fix anything. What makes you say they are that, and for everyone, and from everyone's perception? Because lots of people say it on HN? Because lots of people say it anywhere? Does that make it true? And if it is true, it changed once, why can't it change again? Through these discussions is how society changes - and it will change, one way or another. > who decided university is the only place you could learn this, or that you could not become a life long learner long before going to university? It seems like universities are the best place to learn, given the obvious resources? If I want to learn about history, it would be good to have experts in history, books about history, other people studying history, etc.?
    - andreilys 5y ago
      It seems like universities are the best place to learn, given the obvious resources? If I want to learn about history, it would be good to have experts in history, books about history, other people studying history, etc.? Universities that stifle dissenting opinions are the best place to learn? Interesting. There are plenty of online resources these days with active communities where you can learn from peers without fear of being penalized by your peers or an ideologically captured professor who will fail you for not toeing the idealogical line.
- andreilys 5y ago
  Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. College campuses have gone through severe idealogical capture, so the idea that going through a 4-year degree leads to a well informed populace is laughable. I would argue that a 4-year peace corps posting in an improvised country would lead to a better informed population than any liberal arts education.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > College campuses have gone through severe idealogical capture Reactionaries repeat that over and over, which is their most common tactic for any issue. But reptition is not truth, as we have learned well in the Internet age, though that hasn't stopped people from repeating it. Also, the reactionaries main objection seems to be that their own ideology isn't taught (including things like denial of climate change and racism); they insist they are a non-ideological norm and everything else is ideology, again through repetition. Academia requires proof; it's not a place of equity for bad ideas. It's also a place that disrespects the current establishment; again, no ideas get special treatment.
    - Gollapalli 5y ago
      >Academia requires proof; it's not a place of equity for bad ideas. Tell that to Judith Butler.
wolverine876 5y ago
> As If you have to go to college to become an adult. It's sad that so many comments like this are dismissive, and therefore not much reason or argument is put behind them, making them very thin. You can be an adult with no education or training at all, and for most of human history, that's what happened. Is that our standard? Just 'be' an adult? Why have any schooling?

sammalloy 5y ago

Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. Contrary to what you have argued, becoming cultured (in other words, understanding the philosophy, ethics, history, and fundamental assumptions about how and why society functions) are essential skills for taking responsibility, and the lack of these skills is behind virtually every major deficiency in society. College and university were never supposed to be about job training. They were supposed to teach one how to learn so you could become a lifelong learner and continue your own education in any field you chose to pursue and to use those skills to benefit the society at large so that everyone can benefit from an increasing understanding of the world. Instead, what we have now, is an increasing focus on becoming a corporate employee, who devotes their life to marketing and selling products that society doesn’t need and are in fact increasingly destroying society and harming individual rights and lessening opportunity with each iteration. A higher education is increasingly designed for specialized corporate tasks that do not improve society and fail to solve the most pressing problems at hand.

rayiner 5y ago
> Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. Contrary to what you have argued, becoming cultured (in other words, understanding the philosophy, ethics, history, and fundamental assumptions about how and why society functions) Look at the marvels modern democracy has created with a population that mostly wasn’t college educated. Does democracy work better today, with vastly higher college graduation rates, than it did 30 years ago? Also, I have two step siblings in college and they aren’t learning any of those things. They’re learning fantasies that make them less well-equipped to deal with reality than their parents and grandparents who didn’t go to college.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Also, viz. your remarks about Bangladeshis and college: http://archive.prothom-alo.com/detail/news/67517 http://archive.prothom-alo.com/detail/news/67517
lordnacho 5y ago
That's what high school is for, you should already know a fair bit about government when you leave there. Likewise about lifelong learning.
nsonha 5y ago
"College and university were never supposed to be about job training. They were supposed to teach one how to learn so you could become a lifelong learner" I see little benefit in discussing how things should be instead of what they are. There are clearly forces that pivoted universities towards what they are today, telling people what university should be isn't gonna fix anything. More importantly, who decided university is the only place you could learn this, or that you could not become a life long learner long before going to university? It seems that institutional education is precisely what gives people the impression that there is such a thing as "stop learning" aka graduation.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > I see little benefit in discussing how things should be instead of what they are. There are clearly forces that pivoted universities towards what they are today, telling people what university should be isn't gonna fix anything. What makes you say they are that, and for everyone, and from everyone's perception? Because lots of people say it on HN? Because lots of people say it anywhere? Does that make it true? And if it is true, it changed once, why can't it change again? Through these discussions is how society changes - and it will change, one way or another. > who decided university is the only place you could learn this, or that you could not become a life long learner long before going to university? It seems like universities are the best place to learn, given the obvious resources? If I want to learn about history, it would be good to have experts in history, books about history, other people studying history, etc.?
  - andreilys 5y ago
    It seems like universities are the best place to learn, given the obvious resources? If I want to learn about history, it would be good to have experts in history, books about history, other people studying history, etc.? Universities that stifle dissenting opinions are the best place to learn? Interesting. There are plenty of online resources these days with active communities where you can learn from peers without fear of being penalized by your peers or an ideologically captured professor who will fail you for not toeing the idealogical line.
andreilys 5y ago
Without a well-informed populace, democracy cannot function. College campuses have gone through severe idealogical capture, so the idea that going through a 4-year degree leads to a well informed populace is laughable. I would argue that a 4-year peace corps posting in an improvised country would lead to a better informed population than any liberal arts education.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > College campuses have gone through severe idealogical capture Reactionaries repeat that over and over, which is their most common tactic for any issue. But reptition is not truth, as we have learned well in the Internet age, though that hasn't stopped people from repeating it. Also, the reactionaries main objection seems to be that their own ideology isn't taught (including things like denial of climate change and racism); they insist they are a non-ideological norm and everything else is ideology, again through repetition. Academia requires proof; it's not a place of equity for bad ideas. It's also a place that disrespects the current establishment; again, no ideas get special treatment.
  - Gollapalli 5y ago
    >Academia requires proof; it's not a place of equity for bad ideas. Tell that to Judith Butler.

wolverine876 5y ago

> As If you have to go to college to become an adult. It's sad that so many comments like this are dismissive, and therefore not much reason or argument is put behind them, making them very thin. You can be an adult with no education or training at all, and for most of human history, that's what happened. Is that our standard? Just 'be' an adult? Why have any schooling?