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Yeah, their statement about expecting to push changes to prod on day 1 is hilariously unrealistic. The sense of entitlement is strong in this one. Glad we don't

Yeah, their statement about expecting to push changes to prod on day 1 is hilariously unrealistic. The sense of entitlement is strong in this one. Glad we don't hire people like this.

Aeolun 5y ago
Depends on how large your app/org/process is. I have worked in places where it would be expected (6 people org), and absolutely laughable (10k+), not least of which is that any release takes at least two months in the first place.
eutropia 5y ago
we have our new engineers update the “our team” wall of faces with their photo on day 1 in prod. Not sure why that’s unrealistic if your deploy process doesn’t suck?
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Good lord, why do people have team walls with pictures at all? I've seen it a lot and never understood why, but since you seem to be an advocate for it, I'll ask why my picture matters.
  - eutropia 5y ago
    I don’t know why, I don’t have an opinion on it, it’s just something we have done. My point was only that pushing (any) code to prod on day 1 doesn’t have to be an entitled fantasy.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Oh, yes. You can push some small predetermined change like that through, or something else that doesn't require codebase knowledge. Although that is a thinly veiled test of your knowledge of the build process, in the same way "find a dog" is a made up thing to do for an internal directory tool.
      - mrslave 5y ago
        OK there's a lot of good points on both sides of this. For one: pushing meaningful code change on day 1 may be unrealistic. For another: at least we've initiated the new team member into the full process of contributing to the product's code base, and their manager knows there are no administrative blockers (workstation, account, 2FA token, etc.). I know which I prefer. Also fixing a small (and admittedly probably low priority) defect is an achievable goal and a pretty cool way to get your toes wet. At least you're in the pool.
  - wildmanx 5y ago
    It's one step in building personal connections with your co-workers. It's one thing to get into a fight with somebody who is only a username on your screen. It's very different if you get to know your co-workers, understand how they think, how they work, what their culture is, their way of expressing things. Seeing a face is one of the first steps in this process. Much of the online ranting (and frankly, hate), including in this thread, would be avoided if people would just spend some time getting to know the human beings behind the text on their screen. The very thing that has been called "infantilizing" somewhere else in this thread.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      I think Facebook and the various other forums that attempted a realname policy disprove your claim that civility is connected to real world identity. I do agree that meeting your coworkers and talking to them can indeed have very beneficial effects. I just don't see how a picture of a face helps that in any way. That's the connection that just doesn't seem to exist. It seems like people who want video on on Zoom calls. There are very few cases where that's a bonus. And yes, I agree that the people who called getting to know their peers via an onboarding process that was probably somewhat corny "infantilizing" seem way offbase.
sverhagen 5y ago
I worked in a place where it happened. If you dismiss that, it speaks to your experiences, not to mine. In my current job, it's not quite possible, the developer setup just isn't as mature yet, and it takes a few days. But at least I can aspire to do better. Of course, on your first day, you don't implement a new feature, but a small, well selected bug fix with a clear suggestion of how to fix it already contained in the ticket, is still possible. Also, of course, if you have a 2-month release cycle, it also doesn't work, so this story is from a team with a working Continuous Delivery practice.

Yeah, their statement about expecting to push changes to prod on day 1 is hilariously unrealistic. The sense of entitlement is strong in this one. Glad we don't hire people like this.

Aeolun 5y ago

Depends on how large your app/org/process is. I have worked in places where it would be expected (6 people org), and absolutely laughable (10k+), not least of which is that any release takes at least two months in the first place.

eutropia 5y ago

we have our new engineers update the “our team” wall of faces with their photo on day 1 in prod. Not sure why that’s unrealistic if your deploy process doesn’t suck?

HWR_14 5y ago
Good lord, why do people have team walls with pictures at all? I've seen it a lot and never understood why, but since you seem to be an advocate for it, I'll ask why my picture matters.
- eutropia 5y ago
  I don’t know why, I don’t have an opinion on it, it’s just something we have done. My point was only that pushing (any) code to prod on day 1 doesn’t have to be an entitled fantasy.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Oh, yes. You can push some small predetermined change like that through, or something else that doesn't require codebase knowledge. Although that is a thinly veiled test of your knowledge of the build process, in the same way "find a dog" is a made up thing to do for an internal directory tool.
    - mrslave 5y ago
      OK there's a lot of good points on both sides of this. For one: pushing meaningful code change on day 1 may be unrealistic. For another: at least we've initiated the new team member into the full process of contributing to the product's code base, and their manager knows there are no administrative blockers (workstation, account, 2FA token, etc.). I know which I prefer. Also fixing a small (and admittedly probably low priority) defect is an achievable goal and a pretty cool way to get your toes wet. At least you're in the pool.
- wildmanx 5y ago
  It's one step in building personal connections with your co-workers. It's one thing to get into a fight with somebody who is only a username on your screen. It's very different if you get to know your co-workers, understand how they think, how they work, what their culture is, their way of expressing things. Seeing a face is one of the first steps in this process. Much of the online ranting (and frankly, hate), including in this thread, would be avoided if people would just spend some time getting to know the human beings behind the text on their screen. The very thing that has been called "infantilizing" somewhere else in this thread.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    I think Facebook and the various other forums that attempted a realname policy disprove your claim that civility is connected to real world identity. I do agree that meeting your coworkers and talking to them can indeed have very beneficial effects. I just don't see how a picture of a face helps that in any way. That's the connection that just doesn't seem to exist. It seems like people who want video on on Zoom calls. There are very few cases where that's a bonus. And yes, I agree that the people who called getting to know their peers via an onboarding process that was probably somewhat corny "infantilizing" seem way offbase.

sverhagen 5y ago

I worked in a place where it happened. If you dismiss that, it speaks to your experiences, not to mine. In my current job, it's not quite possible, the developer setup just isn't as mature yet, and it takes a few days. But at least I can aspire to do better. Of course, on your first day, you don't implement a new feature, but a small, well selected bug fix with a clear suggestion of how to fix it already contained in the ticket, is still possible. Also, of course, if you have a 2-month release cycle, it also doesn't work, so this story is from a team with a working Continuous Delivery practice.