9 ms·

Ice cream trucks are easy targets. Those jerks will park next to a playground while their diesel fumes blanket the area.

jimmaswell 5y ago
This is satire, right?
- CurrentB 5y ago
  Do you not believe they don't turn off their engine, or think they should be entitled to keep it running?
  - jimmaswell 5y ago
    They should be entitled to keep it running. It's completely blown out of proportion.
    - sonicggg 5y ago
      Why would they be above the law? Are they considered an emergency vehicle?
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      It's not blown out of proportion. Diesel and just all combustion in general is shaping up to be the next asbestos/lead. It's extremely clear how dangerous these fumes are but we have been desensitized in to accepting it.
      - jimmaswell 5y ago
        Source on diesel being equally dangerous as chronic lead or asbestos exposure?
        foxes 5y ago
        Cars are definitely poisoning our cities. There is a plethora of evidence. Here's a few top hits. [0] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323426#causes https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323426#causes [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390771/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390771/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/car-fumes-air-pollution-ban-motorists https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/car-fu...
        jahewson 5y ago
        No shortage of sources. https://phys.org/news/2019-02-pollution-deaths-linked-diesel.html https://phys.org/news/2019-02-pollution-deaths-linked-diesel... https://www.catf.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/CATF_Pub_Diesel_Health_America.pdf https://www.catf.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/CATF_Pub_Dies... https://www.hazards.org/chemicals/fuming.htm https://www.hazards.org/chemicals/fuming.htm That last article itself cites 15 sources. The data shows significantly more deaths from diesel than asbestos and roughly or par with lead. Remember that those exposures last a lifetime, so the data lags significantly.
        giantg2 5y ago
        "That last article itself cites 15 sources. The data shows significantly more deaths from diesel than asbestos and roughly or par with lead. Remember that those exposures last a lifetime, so the data lags significantly." Not saying it's not bad, but this equivocation is just not accurate in my view. More deaths sure - because more people were exposed. Can you honestly tell me you would rather be exposed to asbestos or lead (no ppe)? Also, emissions controls have increased as has air quality since the 80s. I doubt this idea that the data still has lag left in it. We would expect to see the most impact at the higher exposure levels.
        Spivak 5y ago
        You’re missing the individual vs societal view. Obviously you personally would rather not be exposed to asbestos or lead but at the societal level 1000 people that are really really dead and 1000 people who are just normally dead aren’t that different. And honestly it’s worse for diesel having wide exposure because there are in between states between totally fine and dead and those affect more people.
    - ip26 5y ago
      Aren't my kids entitled to breathe air instead of diesel?
      - jimmaswell 5y ago
        They'll live from the tiny amount of diesel. The ice cream is worth it.
        antisthenes 5y ago
        You don't need to run an 8 liter V8 diesel to keep a small fridge with icecream cold. It can run off of a battery bank or the built in accumulator. Well insulated fridges are pretty efficient
        paulmd 5y ago
        As a kid, our scout troop had a fundraising deal with the local Schwan's distributor, they would bring in a delivery truck full of ice-cream and we'd sell it at a local festival, and then pay wholesale for what we'd used. Anyway basically there was no power at the festivals, it was usually just a parking lot at a local highschool, so they'd plug it in overnight. Not sure whether they had batteries/etc, but they were perfectly fine being out in a hot parking lot for 16 hours, no problem. And we were constantly in and out of the trucks selling ice cream which is not what a delivery truck was designed for.
    - thatfrenchguy 5y ago
      Nope, nothing is worth having less clean air
- ardit33 5y ago
  No it is not. They are major pollutors, as mostly are older trucks run by local semi-mafioso organizations (I am not kidding. There even have been turf wars over it).
  - semanticist 5y ago
    It sounds absurd, but it's true, here's the Wikipedia on the Glasgow Ice Cream Wars of the 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars These days it's the local taxi companies they have their teeth into, so I'm told.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      Absurd indeed, I wouldnt believe this without the link. I would love to see a Scorsese movie about it.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  This is exactly my reaction to this whole comment section too honestly. "Reporting your neighbors and being a professional snitch is good" is the type of take you only see in HN. Yes, laws need to be enforced but it does not mean we need to all turn into paid petty neighborhood cops/informants . Not only because it makes you miserable but also because there's always a risk when you start calling law enforcement on people.
  - Teever 5y ago
    - ghostpepper 5y ago
      It's one thing to call the cops when another party has aggrieved you or violated your rights in some (even minor) way. It's entirely another for the government to create financial incentives for people to report their fellow citizens for petty crimes that the payee would otherwise not care about / be impacted by. Even this particular bylaw is clearly contentious in the comments here. Surely you can think of at least one law that you disagree with - imagine if there was a payout for reporting on it, and how that scenario could play out.
      - noahtallen 5y ago
        I outlined this above, but I think there is a very clear argument that pollution is a violation of your property rights. Would you be happy if someone ran 200 Diesel engines upwind of you, making the air around your home on your property unbreathable? I believe that should philosophically indicate that your rights are being violated when someone is polluting.
        ghostpepper 5y ago
        I'm not against the law. If someone is polluting your air then you have a right to call the police and report it - but you should be doing that because you care about the air, and not because you're getting a cut of the ticket.
ars 5y ago
Is there a way for them to keep the ice cream frozen with the engine off? Is it a separate system?
- FateOfNations 5y ago
  A gasoline- or propane-powered auxiliary power unit (i.e. generator) would be a much better power source for that than the truck's diesel engine.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    Would a typical cheap gasoline generator (small and likely unoptimized engine) be better than a modern diesel car engine?
    - odonnellryan 5y ago
      Probably not. Cheap gas generators use a ton of fuel.
  - odonnellryan 5y ago
    I dunno if that is really accurate. A diesel engine is really just a generator.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Electric perhaps, but I'm not sure about a gas generator -- two-stroke engines tend to be very polluting.
- __s 5y ago
  Store it in a cooler with ice packs I've vended ice cream from a bike https://serprex.github.io/w/Ice%20Cream%20Biker https://serprex.github.io/w/Ice%20Cream%20Biker
- fastball 5y ago
  Get a big battery, charge it at night.
- 5y ago
Symbiote 5y ago
Outside where I once worked, I got fed up with the ice cream van idling the diesel engine outside my window, so I complained to the local council by email. Why wasn't the driver using the power socket in the lamp post that was there for the purpose? Ten minutes later, police appeared and arrested the driver. The council wrote back and said the driver was trading illegally, and had been warned before. (My colleagues made jokes about this for months.)
- oneoff786 5y ago
  You got a 10 minute response by in person police to an email to local council?!
  - elsonrodriguez 5y ago
    If the person had been a repeat offender this is totally plausible. I once mentioned a builder to someone on a local council and she went on a small rant and gave me her number in case a certain behavior was repeated.
- NullPrefix 5y ago
  Instead of talking to the driver you emailed your local council?
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    It’s much better this way. The cost borne to the driver was very high and now he will probably not do this ever again, instead of needing to be told.
  - xahrepap 5y ago
    You know, I remember many times on my neighborhood’s Facebook post age people saying things like “thanks whomever reported my barking dog. I had no idea it was a problem now I owe $500. Why didn’t you just tell me?!” or whatever. So I was like, oh yeah I’ll just be a cool neighbor. I texted several of my neighbors once. Completely polite and to the point “hey, there are dogs barking all day lately. Can you double check yours isn’t one? It’s really disruptive. Thanks!” One of them passive aggressively never spoke to me again until they moved. The other texted me back berating me. How dare I even suggest their perfect dog… I will call the cops anonymously from now on.
giantg2 5y ago
Nope, the ordinance that I found says they can run it for loading, unloading, and processing. I'm pretty sure refrigeration and food trucks fall into that.

jimmaswell 5y ago

This is satire, right?

CurrentB 5y ago
Do you not believe they don't turn off their engine, or think they should be entitled to keep it running?
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  They should be entitled to keep it running. It's completely blown out of proportion.
  - sonicggg 5y ago
    Why would they be above the law? Are they considered an emergency vehicle?
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    It's not blown out of proportion. Diesel and just all combustion in general is shaping up to be the next asbestos/lead. It's extremely clear how dangerous these fumes are but we have been desensitized in to accepting it.
    - jimmaswell 5y ago
      Source on diesel being equally dangerous as chronic lead or asbestos exposure?
      - foxes 5y ago
        Cars are definitely poisoning our cities. There is a plethora of evidence. Here's a few top hits. [0] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323426#causes https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323426#causes [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390771/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390771/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/car-fumes-air-pollution-ban-motorists https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/04/car-fu...
      - jahewson 5y ago
        No shortage of sources. https://phys.org/news/2019-02-pollution-deaths-linked-diesel.html https://phys.org/news/2019-02-pollution-deaths-linked-diesel... https://www.catf.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/CATF_Pub_Diesel_Health_America.pdf https://www.catf.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/CATF_Pub_Dies... https://www.hazards.org/chemicals/fuming.htm https://www.hazards.org/chemicals/fuming.htm That last article itself cites 15 sources. The data shows significantly more deaths from diesel than asbestos and roughly or par with lead. Remember that those exposures last a lifetime, so the data lags significantly.
        giantg2 5y ago
        "That last article itself cites 15 sources. The data shows significantly more deaths from diesel than asbestos and roughly or par with lead. Remember that those exposures last a lifetime, so the data lags significantly." Not saying it's not bad, but this equivocation is just not accurate in my view. More deaths sure - because more people were exposed. Can you honestly tell me you would rather be exposed to asbestos or lead (no ppe)? Also, emissions controls have increased as has air quality since the 80s. I doubt this idea that the data still has lag left in it. We would expect to see the most impact at the higher exposure levels.
        Spivak 5y ago
        You’re missing the individual vs societal view. Obviously you personally would rather not be exposed to asbestos or lead but at the societal level 1000 people that are really really dead and 1000 people who are just normally dead aren’t that different. And honestly it’s worse for diesel having wide exposure because there are in between states between totally fine and dead and those affect more people.
  - ip26 5y ago
    Aren't my kids entitled to breathe air instead of diesel?
    - jimmaswell 5y ago
      They'll live from the tiny amount of diesel. The ice cream is worth it.
      - antisthenes 5y ago
        You don't need to run an 8 liter V8 diesel to keep a small fridge with icecream cold. It can run off of a battery bank or the built in accumulator. Well insulated fridges are pretty efficient
        paulmd 5y ago
        As a kid, our scout troop had a fundraising deal with the local Schwan's distributor, they would bring in a delivery truck full of ice-cream and we'd sell it at a local festival, and then pay wholesale for what we'd used. Anyway basically there was no power at the festivals, it was usually just a parking lot at a local highschool, so they'd plug it in overnight. Not sure whether they had batteries/etc, but they were perfectly fine being out in a hot parking lot for 16 hours, no problem. And we were constantly in and out of the trucks selling ice cream which is not what a delivery truck was designed for.
  - thatfrenchguy 5y ago
    Nope, nothing is worth having less clean air
ardit33 5y ago
No it is not. They are major pollutors, as mostly are older trucks run by local semi-mafioso organizations (I am not kidding. There even have been turf wars over it).
- semanticist 5y ago
  It sounds absurd, but it's true, here's the Wikipedia on the Glasgow Ice Cream Wars of the 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars These days it's the local taxi companies they have their teeth into, so I'm told.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    Absurd indeed, I wouldnt believe this without the link. I would love to see a Scorsese movie about it.
mardifoufs 5y ago
This is exactly my reaction to this whole comment section too honestly. "Reporting your neighbors and being a professional snitch is good" is the type of take you only see in HN. Yes, laws need to be enforced but it does not mean we need to all turn into paid petty neighborhood cops/informants . Not only because it makes you miserable but also because there's always a risk when you start calling law enforcement on people.
- Teever 5y ago
  - ghostpepper 5y ago
    It's one thing to call the cops when another party has aggrieved you or violated your rights in some (even minor) way. It's entirely another for the government to create financial incentives for people to report their fellow citizens for petty crimes that the payee would otherwise not care about / be impacted by. Even this particular bylaw is clearly contentious in the comments here. Surely you can think of at least one law that you disagree with - imagine if there was a payout for reporting on it, and how that scenario could play out.
    - noahtallen 5y ago
      I outlined this above, but I think there is a very clear argument that pollution is a violation of your property rights. Would you be happy if someone ran 200 Diesel engines upwind of you, making the air around your home on your property unbreathable? I believe that should philosophically indicate that your rights are being violated when someone is polluting.
      - ghostpepper 5y ago
        I'm not against the law. If someone is polluting your air then you have a right to call the police and report it - but you should be doing that because you care about the air, and not because you're getting a cut of the ticket.

ars 5y ago

Is there a way for them to keep the ice cream frozen with the engine off? Is it a separate system?

FateOfNations 5y ago
A gasoline- or propane-powered auxiliary power unit (i.e. generator) would be a much better power source for that than the truck's diesel engine.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  Would a typical cheap gasoline generator (small and likely unoptimized engine) be better than a modern diesel car engine?
  - odonnellryan 5y ago
    Probably not. Cheap gas generators use a ton of fuel.
- odonnellryan 5y ago
  I dunno if that is really accurate. A diesel engine is really just a generator.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Electric perhaps, but I'm not sure about a gas generator -- two-stroke engines tend to be very polluting.
__s 5y ago
Store it in a cooler with ice packs I've vended ice cream from a bike https://serprex.github.io/w/Ice%20Cream%20Biker https://serprex.github.io/w/Ice%20Cream%20Biker
fastball 5y ago
Get a big battery, charge it at night.
5y ago

Symbiote 5y ago

Outside where I once worked, I got fed up with the ice cream van idling the diesel engine outside my window, so I complained to the local council by email. Why wasn't the driver using the power socket in the lamp post that was there for the purpose? Ten minutes later, police appeared and arrested the driver. The council wrote back and said the driver was trading illegally, and had been warned before. (My colleagues made jokes about this for months.)

oneoff786 5y ago
You got a 10 minute response by in person police to an email to local council?!
- elsonrodriguez 5y ago
  If the person had been a repeat offender this is totally plausible. I once mentioned a builder to someone on a local council and she went on a small rant and gave me her number in case a certain behavior was repeated.
NullPrefix 5y ago
Instead of talking to the driver you emailed your local council?
- spoonjim 5y ago
  It’s much better this way. The cost borne to the driver was very high and now he will probably not do this ever again, instead of needing to be told.
- xahrepap 5y ago
  You know, I remember many times on my neighborhood’s Facebook post age people saying things like “thanks whomever reported my barking dog. I had no idea it was a problem now I owe $500. Why didn’t you just tell me?!” or whatever. So I was like, oh yeah I’ll just be a cool neighbor. I texted several of my neighbors once. Completely polite and to the point “hey, there are dogs barking all day lately. Can you double check yours isn’t one? It’s really disruptive. Thanks!” One of them passive aggressively never spoke to me again until they moved. The other texted me back berating me. How dare I even suggest their perfect dog… I will call the cops anonymously from now on.

giantg2 5y ago

Nope, the ordinance that I found says they can run it for loading, unloading, and processing. I'm pretty sure refrigeration and food trucks fall into that.