6 ms·

That's a great quote: >I remember when I was drawing the Undead Dragon, I submitted a design draft that depicted a dragon swarming with maggots and other gross

That's a great quote: >I remember when I was drawing the Undead Dragon, I submitted a design draft that depicted a dragon swarming with maggots and other gross things. Miyazaki handed it back to me saying "This isn't dignified. Don't rely on the gross factor to portray an undead dragon. Can't you instead try to convey the deep sorrow of a magnificent beast doomed to a slow and possibly endless descent into ruin?"

mariusor 5y ago
And now we got the God Skin Duo... gulp...
- ab-dm 5y ago
  Just beat them last night.... it was brutal. If you explore a bit you'll find a site of grace that's directly in front of one of the gates. I also switched to frost damage and it made the fight almost trivial.
  - _1100 5y ago
    You can also use sleep items/magic and fight them one at a time. Also if you never lock on to either of them, they are less aggressive. I love that these games are turning to my old man. “Back in my day you Had to think your way through the problems…”
  - mariusor 5y ago
    I didn't mean in terms of difficulty, but in terms of being "dignified" as a horror image, which was what GP was quoting from Miyazaki. Also I don't mean it as a way to point out some sort of hypocrisy, but that sometimes concessions were made. Horrible, horrible concessions.
michaelscott 5y ago
This idea of a fallen-from-grace character is a common motif when it comes to Miyazaki, but it's so effective every time and always adds a dimension to the games' lore. To this day, I think Gehrman in Bloodborne is my favourite boss fight because it's simultaneously a test of everything you've grown into over the course of the game yourself, and also the conclusion of this man's painful, long and tragic existence
- cgh 5y ago
  Man, that fight was so satisfying, particularly since I’d eaten the umbilicals first.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Without context, this sounds quite crazy.
    - seanw444 5y ago
      Hey man, people eat placenta.
- urthor 5y ago
  Are there any examples where this isn't the Motif in Elden Ring? Arguably this is his only motif. Elden ring is basically a huge ungodly mountain of character flaws.
  - michaelscott 5y ago
    There are definitely a few exceptions. Pontiff Sulyvahn (DS3) comes to mind as one, it's possible that Godrick in ER is also although we'll need to uncover more lore still. Byrgenwerth (Bloodborne) as an institution definitely. The motif of evil with Miyazaki often seems to be the institutional evil that affects the world, and very occasionally specific individuals in those institutions
eawoifjaiowepfj 5y ago
This is rich, maybe Miyazaki just has different judgment than me but Dark Souls is one of the grossest and gloomiest games I've played due to the immediate application of gross-out body horror. [0] is the Asylum Demon, which is literally the first boss in Dark Souls. Bloodborne cranks the gross-out factor up to 11 with [1] and [2]. [0] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6qCB_x7KQR8/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6qCB_x7KQR8/maxresdefault.jpg [1] https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Bloodborne/ludwig.jpg https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Bloodborne/ludwi... [2] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXCskueejFY/XLlAKLB-nmI/AAAAAAAAdp8/KnwjEXqhP9EWobiKGEjcjUU_w6muEGYUACLcBGAs/s1600/Bloodborne%25E2%2584%25A2_20190302135722.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXCskueejFY/XLlAKLB-nmI/AAAAAAAAd...
- automatoney 5y ago
  No mention of Gaping Dragon[0] and Ceaseless Discharge[1]? They just want hugs :( The Gaping Dragon also has an attack where it vomits in a very large area. [0] https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragons/images/a/ac/OtTPLEC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170906065438 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragons/images/a/ac/OtTP... [1] https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/4/49/Ceaseless_Discharge_Armed_and_Dangerous.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/624?cb=20141006052510 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/4/49/Ceas...
- shahar2k 5y ago
  they are gross if you consider just the deformity and references (I've had to design character looking at all SORT of deformations and diseases) but also each has their own "dignity" if you want to see pure grossness like they try to avoid watch something like peter jackson's "dead alive" the souls really nail a kind of tragic or even self respecting aspect of deformation in their more "offputting" characters.
- Trasmatta 5y ago
  I think that quote gets misinterpreted a bit. I don't think Miyazaki is against the gross out factor entirely, but he doesn't want that to be the sole characteristic of the design. Ludwig (your second example) is, I think, a perfect example of this. He's one of the most disgusting designs they've ever made, and yet when he stands during his second phase, and the music swells, you get an immense feeling of the grandeur and power of Ludwig before his fall to the disgusting creature he became: https://youtu.be/7n1qe2ZSTPA?t=102 https://youtu.be/7n1qe2ZSTPA?t=102 That being said, I think FromSoft's designs sometimes ARE "just gross". But it's an admirable guiding principle, even if they don't always hit it.

mariusor 5y ago

And now we got the God Skin Duo... gulp...

ab-dm 5y ago
Just beat them last night.... it was brutal. If you explore a bit you'll find a site of grace that's directly in front of one of the gates. I also switched to frost damage and it made the fight almost trivial.
- _1100 5y ago
  You can also use sleep items/magic and fight them one at a time. Also if you never lock on to either of them, they are less aggressive. I love that these games are turning to my old man. “Back in my day you Had to think your way through the problems…”
- mariusor 5y ago
  I didn't mean in terms of difficulty, but in terms of being "dignified" as a horror image, which was what GP was quoting from Miyazaki. Also I don't mean it as a way to point out some sort of hypocrisy, but that sometimes concessions were made. Horrible, horrible concessions.

michaelscott 5y ago

This idea of a fallen-from-grace character is a common motif when it comes to Miyazaki, but it's so effective every time and always adds a dimension to the games' lore. To this day, I think Gehrman in Bloodborne is my favourite boss fight because it's simultaneously a test of everything you've grown into over the course of the game yourself, and also the conclusion of this man's painful, long and tragic existence

cgh 5y ago
Man, that fight was so satisfying, particularly since I’d eaten the umbilicals first.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Without context, this sounds quite crazy.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    Hey man, people eat placenta.
urthor 5y ago
Are there any examples where this isn't the Motif in Elden Ring? Arguably this is his only motif. Elden ring is basically a huge ungodly mountain of character flaws.
- michaelscott 5y ago
  There are definitely a few exceptions. Pontiff Sulyvahn (DS3) comes to mind as one, it's possible that Godrick in ER is also although we'll need to uncover more lore still. Byrgenwerth (Bloodborne) as an institution definitely. The motif of evil with Miyazaki often seems to be the institutional evil that affects the world, and very occasionally specific individuals in those institutions

eawoifjaiowepfj 5y ago

This is rich, maybe Miyazaki just has different judgment than me but Dark Souls is one of the grossest and gloomiest games I've played due to the immediate application of gross-out body horror. [0] is the Asylum Demon, which is literally the first boss in Dark Souls. Bloodborne cranks the gross-out factor up to 11 with [1] and [2]. [0] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6qCB_x7KQR8/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6qCB_x7KQR8/maxresdefault.jpg [1] https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Bloodborne/ludwig.jpg https://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Bloodborne/ludwi... [2] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXCskueejFY/XLlAKLB-nmI/AAAAAAAAdp8/KnwjEXqhP9EWobiKGEjcjUU_w6muEGYUACLcBGAs/s1600/Bloodborne%25E2%2584%25A2_20190302135722.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXCskueejFY/XLlAKLB-nmI/AAAAAAAAd...

automatoney 5y ago
No mention of Gaping Dragon[0] and Ceaseless Discharge[1]? They just want hugs :( The Gaping Dragon also has an attack where it vomits in a very large area. [0] https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragons/images/a/ac/OtTPLEC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170906065438 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragons/images/a/ac/OtTP... [1] https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/4/49/Ceaseless_Discharge_Armed_and_Dangerous.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/624?cb=20141006052510 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/darksouls/images/4/49/Ceas...
shahar2k 5y ago
they are gross if you consider just the deformity and references (I've had to design character looking at all SORT of deformations and diseases) but also each has their own "dignity" if you want to see pure grossness like they try to avoid watch something like peter jackson's "dead alive" the souls really nail a kind of tragic or even self respecting aspect of deformation in their more "offputting" characters.
Trasmatta 5y ago
I think that quote gets misinterpreted a bit. I don't think Miyazaki is against the gross out factor entirely, but he doesn't want that to be the sole characteristic of the design. Ludwig (your second example) is, I think, a perfect example of this. He's one of the most disgusting designs they've ever made, and yet when he stands during his second phase, and the music swells, you get an immense feeling of the grandeur and power of Ludwig before his fall to the disgusting creature he became: https://youtu.be/7n1qe2ZSTPA?t=102 https://youtu.be/7n1qe2ZSTPA?t=102 That being said, I think FromSoft's designs sometimes ARE "just gross". But it's an admirable guiding principle, even if they don't always hit it.