5 ms·

Unfortunately, I'm afraid, since this is based on the actual source code of Turbo Vision, it's non-free, so it's unusable for open source projects.

ilaksh 5y ago
Man I hope you are wrong.. because I was literally planning to build an IDE for Algorand/Python/PyTEAL with this (I know, mentioning Algorand is an automatic downvote, oh well). You might be right.. but I am not sure. Could Borland really sue you or something, many years they release the full source code "as is", "provided gratuitously", "no support", "no updates"? I mean it doesn't explicitly say "public domain", but if someone built software using this and then Borland tried to claim ownership of it or something, would that not be some kind of trap? It seems like any reasonable court would not allow that.. I would like to believe anyway. DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: Borland does not make or give any representation or warranty with respect to the usefulness or the efficiency of this software, it being understood that the degree of success with which equipment, software, modifications, and other materials can be applied to data processing is dependent upon many factors, many of which are not under Borland's control. ACCORDINGLY, THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING NO WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED GRATUITOUSLY AND, ACCORDINGLY, BORLAND SHALL NOT BE LIABLE UNDER ANY THEORY FOR ANY DAMAGES SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY USER OF THE SOFTWARE. BORLAND WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS SOFTWARE AND IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO ISSUE UPDATES TO THIS SOFTWARE. WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE FOREGOING, NEITHER BORLAND NOR ITS SUPPLIERS SHALL BE LIABLE FOR (a) INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR INDIRECT DAMAGES OF ANY SORT, WHETHER ARISING IN TORT, CONTRACT OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF BORLAND HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR (b) FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY OTHER PARTY. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS LIMITATION AND EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. Use, duplication or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs (a) through (d) of the Commercial Computer-Restricted Rights clause at FAR 52.227-19 when applicable, or in subparagraph (c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013, and in similar clauses in the NASA AR Supplement. Contractor / manufacturer is Borland International, Inc., 100 Borland Way, Scotts Valley, CA 95066.
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  I hope I am wrong. But I don't see anywhere in the text of this license any explicit permission to use it for any purpose, it's basically only a warranty disclaimer, unless some bits were omitted by accident.
  - ilaksh 5y ago
    Right. The question is, if I made a program, and for some reason they wanted to extract a fee or make me delete it or something, would a court take their side? Because otherwise what is the utility of releasing the source code of a programming library for free? Could they argue that it was only for educational purposes or something? Again, seems like a trap if it's supposed to be interpreted otherwise. In which case why should such a trap be legal.
  - hvdijk 5y ago
    Public domain means it's not (any longer) under copyright and therefore no license is needed for any use.
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  For anything Python, I recommend you try rich/textual.
- magiblot 5y ago
  I very much doubt you can get into trouble for using Turbo Vision as an external dependency. There are already projects using it, e.g. https://github.com/electroly/tmbasic https://github.com/electroly/tmbasic.
lproven 5y ago
Very important point, this. But of course Borland could fix that quite easily.
dvdkon 5y ago
Wikipedia says there was an official Borland public domain release of the source code, which this is probably based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  Yes, you're right.
andrewshadura 5y ago
I stand corrected, but the license statement should be updated to clearly state the actual license, as it currently only includes the warranty disclaimer.

ilaksh 5y ago

Man I hope you are wrong.. because I was literally planning to build an IDE for Algorand/Python/PyTEAL with this (I know, mentioning Algorand is an automatic downvote, oh well). You might be right.. but I am not sure. Could Borland really sue you or something, many years they release the full source code "as is", "provided gratuitously", "no support", "no updates"? I mean it doesn't explicitly say "public domain", but if someone built software using this and then Borland tried to claim ownership of it or something, would that not be some kind of trap? It seems like any reasonable court would not allow that.. I would like to believe anyway. DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: Borland does not make or give any representation or warranty with respect to the usefulness or the efficiency of this software, it being understood that the degree of success with which equipment, software, modifications, and other materials can be applied to data processing is dependent upon many factors, many of which are not under Borland's control. ACCORDINGLY, THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING NO WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED GRATUITOUSLY AND, ACCORDINGLY, BORLAND SHALL NOT BE LIABLE UNDER ANY THEORY FOR ANY DAMAGES SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY USER OF THE SOFTWARE. BORLAND WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS SOFTWARE AND IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO ISSUE UPDATES TO THIS SOFTWARE. WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE FOREGOING, NEITHER BORLAND NOR ITS SUPPLIERS SHALL BE LIABLE FOR (a) INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR INDIRECT DAMAGES OF ANY SORT, WHETHER ARISING IN TORT, CONTRACT OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF BORLAND HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR (b) FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY OTHER PARTY. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS LIMITATION AND EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. Use, duplication or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs (a) through (d) of the Commercial Computer-Restricted Rights clause at FAR 52.227-19 when applicable, or in subparagraph (c) (1) (ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013, and in similar clauses in the NASA AR Supplement. Contractor / manufacturer is Borland International, Inc., 100 Borland Way, Scotts Valley, CA 95066.

andrewshadura 5y ago
I hope I am wrong. But I don't see anywhere in the text of this license any explicit permission to use it for any purpose, it's basically only a warranty disclaimer, unless some bits were omitted by accident.
- ilaksh 5y ago
  Right. The question is, if I made a program, and for some reason they wanted to extract a fee or make me delete it or something, would a court take their side? Because otherwise what is the utility of releasing the source code of a programming library for free? Could they argue that it was only for educational purposes or something? Again, seems like a trap if it's supposed to be interpreted otherwise. In which case why should such a trap be legal.
- hvdijk 5y ago
  Public domain means it's not (any longer) under copyright and therefore no license is needed for any use.
andrewshadura 5y ago
For anything Python, I recommend you try rich/textual.
magiblot 5y ago
I very much doubt you can get into trouble for using Turbo Vision as an external dependency. There are already projects using it, e.g. https://github.com/electroly/tmbasic https://github.com/electroly/tmbasic.

lproven 5y ago

Very important point, this. But of course Borland could fix that quite easily.

dvdkon 5y ago

Wikipedia says there was an official Borland public domain release of the source code, which this is probably based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Vision

andrewshadura 5y ago
Yes, you're right.

andrewshadura 5y ago

I stand corrected, but the license statement should be updated to clearly state the actual license, as it currently only includes the warranty disclaimer.