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I wouldn't call it love per se, but it certainly does take a special kind of empathy to put yourself in the shoes of someone using your software, and to use tha

I wouldn't call it love per se, but it certainly does take a special kind of empathy to put yourself in the shoes of someone using your software, and to use that perspective to make a great product.

skeeter2020 5y ago
I have several junior developers on my team who came from the customer success / support side of the business who grew themselves into developer roles. They typically have not only the strongest desire to learn & improve, but also the most empathy and understanding of our impact on customers & their livelihood.
- kbelder 5y ago
  Yes! If you can get somebody on your team that has worked their way up from, for example, a customer service contact center, they'll be immensely valuable. Just their insight on what customers love and hate about your product is probably worth their hire.
  - wonder_er 5y ago
    This was my path into software development! It's served me so well, now I want to figure out how to "recruit" future engineers from customer service teams. The benefits would be endless, and they'd "cut their teeth" on solving crunch problems for themselves/their teams.
  - alexott 5y ago
    Very often they go into product management roles
- wonder_er 5y ago
  Several? That feels like _many_. I rarely cross paths with teams that can handle more than one at a time. Do you have a particularly large team? Or a particularly good process for 'onboarding' new/less-experienced engineers? Sounds like a lot of things are going right at your company for your team to have picked up several developers this way.
- kitd 5y ago
  I believe every developer needs to spend regular time in a customer-facing support role (if possible). They will learn much more clearly how difficult (or less likely easy) their product is to use.
agumonkey 5y ago
I think it's a long term obvious win. If you care larger, you avoid painting yourself in corners. See what really needs to be done, do just that and enjoy the harmony.
shoo 5y ago
Alexander advocated getting the people who would live or work in the buildings involved in the design and construction of the buildings. Get the people who will live in the place out in the field and work together to peg out the outlines of the buildings & refine the design. This philosophy is succinctly summarised in the book Peopleware: > local control of design by those who will occupy the space Unfortunately this aspect of Alexander's philosophy of letting the users participate in the design, construction or customisation of building and towns was ignored, while the other idea of design patterns became very popular when adapted to software. Some software is built for a market where the buyers are the end-users to software. Other software is built for markets where the purchasing decision is made by a committee of stakeholders, perhaps excluding the people who will be the day to day users of the software. If you contrast the two in terms of usability, you can start to appreciate what Alexander was getting at.
- hosh 5y ago
  It isn’t as if the tech was not out there, but we made a conscious choice to move away from user-participation platforms — Hypercard and Smalltalk among the examples. Minecraft has some of these elements, and is why it is fun for people. Arguably, Roblox is the largest scale example, though my understanding is that it is still not so easy that end users can really participate in creating their own designs.
amelius 5y ago
What if you work in the ad industry and doing what your real users want hurts your bottom line?
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  I worked in the ad industry for years and made good money doing it. I now work, unpaid, on a FOSS passion project. What I would advise is treating each job as a college course which you also happen to be paid for. For me, this meant not allowing myself to become emotionally invested in the work, taking good notes about what I learned each day, and looking for a new job (typically with a raise) once those notes were sparse for too long.
- boxed 5y ago
  Don't. "Right livelihood" is a thing. It might not be easy but you should.

I wouldn't call it love per se, but it certainly does take a special kind of empathy to put yourself in the shoes of someone using your software, and to use that perspective to make a great product.

skeeter2020 5y ago

I have several junior developers on my team who came from the customer success / support side of the business who grew themselves into developer roles. They typically have not only the strongest desire to learn & improve, but also the most empathy and understanding of our impact on customers & their livelihood.

kbelder 5y ago
Yes! If you can get somebody on your team that has worked their way up from, for example, a customer service contact center, they'll be immensely valuable. Just their insight on what customers love and hate about your product is probably worth their hire.
- wonder_er 5y ago
  This was my path into software development! It's served me so well, now I want to figure out how to "recruit" future engineers from customer service teams. The benefits would be endless, and they'd "cut their teeth" on solving crunch problems for themselves/their teams.
- alexott 5y ago
  Very often they go into product management roles
wonder_er 5y ago
Several? That feels like _many_. I rarely cross paths with teams that can handle more than one at a time. Do you have a particularly large team? Or a particularly good process for 'onboarding' new/less-experienced engineers? Sounds like a lot of things are going right at your company for your team to have picked up several developers this way.
kitd 5y ago
I believe every developer needs to spend regular time in a customer-facing support role (if possible). They will learn much more clearly how difficult (or less likely easy) their product is to use.

agumonkey 5y ago

I think it's a long term obvious win. If you care larger, you avoid painting yourself in corners. See what really needs to be done, do just that and enjoy the harmony.

shoo 5y ago

Alexander advocated getting the people who would live or work in the buildings involved in the design and construction of the buildings. Get the people who will live in the place out in the field and work together to peg out the outlines of the buildings & refine the design. This philosophy is succinctly summarised in the book Peopleware: > local control of design by those who will occupy the space Unfortunately this aspect of Alexander's philosophy of letting the users participate in the design, construction or customisation of building and towns was ignored, while the other idea of design patterns became very popular when adapted to software. Some software is built for a market where the buyers are the end-users to software. Other software is built for markets where the purchasing decision is made by a committee of stakeholders, perhaps excluding the people who will be the day to day users of the software. If you contrast the two in terms of usability, you can start to appreciate what Alexander was getting at.

hosh 5y ago
It isn’t as if the tech was not out there, but we made a conscious choice to move away from user-participation platforms — Hypercard and Smalltalk among the examples. Minecraft has some of these elements, and is why it is fun for people. Arguably, Roblox is the largest scale example, though my understanding is that it is still not so easy that end users can really participate in creating their own designs.

amelius 5y ago

What if you work in the ad industry and doing what your real users want hurts your bottom line?

forgotmypw17 5y ago
I worked in the ad industry for years and made good money doing it. I now work, unpaid, on a FOSS passion project. What I would advise is treating each job as a college course which you also happen to be paid for. For me, this meant not allowing myself to become emotionally invested in the work, taking good notes about what I learned each day, and looking for a new job (typically with a raise) once those notes were sparse for too long.
boxed 5y ago
Don't. "Right livelihood" is a thing. It might not be easy but you should.