6 ms·

The reduction in co2 emissions, not contributing to public transport overcrowding, saving on food, and the mental health benefits are just some of my reasons fo

The reduction in co2 emissions, not contributing to public transport overcrowding, saving on food, and the mental health benefits are just some of my reasons for avoiding on site work. Not to mention the savings. I am not against people working on site but i am against companies not allowing remote work. If a company’s culture cant cope with remote workers then that company is not internet ready. Probably shouldnt serve remote customers either and instead should switch to in person.

mentaldeath 5y ago
Not everyone's mental health has benefitted. I have been depressed for the past 2 years and started cutting myself and doing other selfharm. The only face to face social interactions I have are with baristas now.
- throwaway6532 5y ago
  Same. As time progresses it's just going from bad to worse. I need to be around people. I'm not functional in a fully remote environment :(
- Bancakes 5y ago
  - plasma_beam 5y ago
    Shocking. Why even reply. There is no need for this on HN.
  - tessierashpool 5y ago
    that is not helpful and you should delete it.
- danesparza 5y ago
  You didn't ask for advice, but I'm going to give you some. See a counselor (aka a therapist). Depression is treatable, but you need to get help. The world needs a "you" that is in the right headspace.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    - dijit 5y ago
      Forcing everyone to be in the office because you are having a hard time having a social experience is definitely a personal problem. I would recommend social clubs. Or, opt for a company that’s on-site. I’ve always been pro-choice in this regard. The problem is that companies have to be all or nothing, you can’t 50/50 remote work between people. Some kind of hybrid is also good. Come in for a few hours or a couple days a week. All the benefits of both approaches.
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      Telling someone who's already at the stage of self harm to just get out and meet some people is not helpful at all. You can't just "get over" a depression, it's an actual sickness. Now, I see where you're coming from; if you feel that you're a bit less happy without meeting people, suggesting to go out is perfectly reasonable. But from what the OP described, they definitely need professional help (and money is also a really bad reason to ignore severe health problems).
      - barry-cotter 5y ago
        It was not suggested that he get drugs, i.e. go to a psychiatrist. That’s very likely to be immediately helpful. Therapists are crap shoots. Going out and meeting people is something this person could go out and do right now, that they have identified as the root of their problem. The analogy is by no means perfect but we’re talking “Oh, you have scurvy, why don’t you eat five oranges.” levels of direct cause and effect relationship here. There are interventions that reliably have large positive effects on depression for many people. Exercise, sleep deprivation, ketamine. Therapy is great if you find a therapist who vibes with you but it’s the vibes that do it, not the therapy. That’s what the therapeutic relationship is about. If you’re depressed and can manage to try something that might work immediately you should. Therapy is not that. > Client perception: that the client perceives, to at least a minimal degree, the therapist's unconditional positive regard and empathic understanding. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_relationship#:~:text=The%20therapeutic%20relationship%20refers%20to%20the%20relationship%20between,other%20and%20effect%20beneficial%20change%20in%20the%20client https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_relationship#:~:....
- gedy 5y ago
  Sorry to hear that. I would recommend you build social relationships outside the office even in the best of times, layoffs happen, people leave, companies fold, etc and it's not healthy to depend on work like that.
- yrgulation 5y ago
  That is why i am not against people wanting onsite. Life is full of nuance. I dont know what kind of advice to give you, but what i found when i was lonely was that changing the setting helped. I lived in london for more than a decade. Despite it being a crowded city i found it quite lonely. I despised that loneliness and my only friends were coworkers. Up until i got “sent” north of england. Suddenly i had a social life, met folks from outside my work and frankly since that point onwards i decided to ditch london for good. One just has to find the inner strength to let people in. Be it through hobbies or randoms there is always a place for everyone. Maybe even changing countries and cultures for more open people can help.
- tessierashpool 5y ago
  a therapist, or a group for group therapy, can help.
- plasma_beam 5y ago
  Friend, know that you're not alone in spirit. The past two years have been tough, and many of us have struggled. I hope you find some peace.
- brotoss 5y ago
  and your point? he literally said doesn't care if other people want to be on site.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  Parks, gyms, sports, recreation centers, libraries, theaters, concert venues, etc. are all totally open and have been open for full in person activities for much of that last 12 months in every state of the US. Go out and live life, there are near zero restrictions on you seeing other people in person. Almost nowhere requires masks right now either.
- VenerablePotage 5y ago
  That's horrible. I hope you find a support system that helps you out of this dark place. Do you draw a line directly specific from work-from-home to your current state? In the past couple of years we've globally had economic strife, millions of deaths and political unrest at enormous scale in addition to the switch to Zoom calls. Would -all things being equal- your desire to self harm be eliminated if you and your fellow employees were back to exchanging pleasantries at the office?
- vonseel 5y ago
  I don’t self-harm, but I agree WFH has been damaging for some of us. Honestly, going to an office everyday just helps me keep a schedule better and makes me more disciplined. It’s very hard for me to be productive when I can get into the habit of just wearing sweatpants all day and barely showering.
- lentil_soup 5y ago
  If your only option is WFH, would you consider working from a coworking space? I've worked from one the entire pandemic and it has been life changing, only a 5min walk from my house, met great people, get to socialise outside work, etc
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
I was very involved with public transit activism for two decades. One of the most disappointing things about the switch to remote work during the pandemic is how many of my friends I met through transit activism have turned against WFH. We used to push for "commute alternatives" of which both transit and work from home were just two of a range of alternatives. But it turns out much of that was simple lip service to transit alternatives that were easy to support because they weren't widely adopted. Once WFH suddenly gained a large chunk of market share, they got very hostile to it. Transit became the one and only acceptable choice. Turned out that many weren't motivated by wanting to have less dependence on private automobiles that clog up and pollute cities but rather they have a vision of everyone living in dense high rise buildings clustered together in city centers. Even though WFH helps unclog city streets and cleans the air, it is now considered bad because it goes against the ultimate goal of dense cities with plentiful transit to get around within the city. If people can live in low population density areas while eliminating 90% of the miles driven per year, that's considered a bad thing because it doesn't support the urban vision they have that can only work if alternatives aren't allowed to exist. Quite disappointing.
- joe_the_user 5y ago
  Actually, While never a transit activist, I would be in favor of dense, walkable cities regardless of work-from-home. I think these are more healthy in a multitude of ways. If people can live in low population density areas while eliminating 90% of the miles driven per year, that's considered a bad thing because it doesn't support the urban vision they have that can only work if alternatives aren't allowed to exist. Can you really eliminate 90% of miles driven by doing work-from-home in an entirely car oriented place? I live in small city surrounded by rural areas. Plenty of people have to drive five mile or more to get to anything. If someone did out once every ten days, it would unhealthy in other ways even if it conserved fuel, imo.
  - gkop 5y ago
    Not only that but the urban vision could come blasting back. If people spend more time at home, they spend more time in their neighborhoods, so they start to care about neighborhood amenities, and suburban just can't compete with urban in the neighborhood amenities (let's wave away cars/driving, noting that in America most cities are actually fairly friendly for driving, as well as have low-density residential districts that are still much more sustainable than the suburbs). Maybe?
tartoran 5y ago
It costs me $5400 per year more to work in the office than working from home and that is excluding the 35-40 hours a month in commute time.
- JackFr 5y ago
  So if the company let’s you work from home, how much of that savings should they capture or do you think you should get it all?
  - jodrellblank 5y ago
    When they force me to work from home because they are closing the office to save money, how much of that savings should I capture, or do you think they should get it all?
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Nothing because they benefit in their own cost savings ways not to mention savings vary between employees.
  - justinhj 5y ago
    They are saving money too; with an increasingly remote workforce they need less space.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    Yeah, let's think about this! Hypothetical time: a new bike path opens up and it goes right past my work and home. I get rid of my car, and save $shitloads on insurance and gas. I now no longer need to spend as much money to get to work! How much of that savings should be captured by my employer, or should I get it all? See the problem? The company isn't saving $5400 of transit-related costs, an employee is. Putting the savings in terms of cuttable salary is kinda ridiculous. Surprisingly, most people work at their jobs in exchange for remuneration, not the satisfaction of reducing costs for their employer; you must be management.
syshum 5y ago
>>saving on food I did not experience this. Even though I did eat out less, I seem to be eating more over all, and with the massive inflation in food costs I seem to be spending more than ever on food. In the office it took effort to get something to eat, i had to drive someone, or prep a meal to bring with me, etc... At home I just have to walk to the kitchen and eat....
bamboozled 5y ago
Yeah, now people just drive around doing leisure activities and buying a lot of sporting equipment. I don't think WFH solves the worlds problems. Before WFH I lived in a city and rode my bike everywhere. Went to a shared gym, because I lived in a city, owning a car was difficult etc. Now I moved away, live in a house, fill it with stuff I probably didn't need and drive around. I will say I do all I can to not drive, I still have my bikes, but I'm still driving 100% more to when I didn't even own a car.

mentaldeath 5y ago

Not everyone's mental health has benefitted. I have been depressed for the past 2 years and started cutting myself and doing other selfharm. The only face to face social interactions I have are with baristas now.

throwaway6532 5y ago
Same. As time progresses it's just going from bad to worse. I need to be around people. I'm not functional in a fully remote environment :(
Bancakes 5y ago
- plasma_beam 5y ago
  Shocking. Why even reply. There is no need for this on HN.
- tessierashpool 5y ago
  that is not helpful and you should delete it.
danesparza 5y ago
You didn't ask for advice, but I'm going to give you some. See a counselor (aka a therapist). Depression is treatable, but you need to get help. The world needs a "you" that is in the right headspace.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  - dijit 5y ago
    Forcing everyone to be in the office because you are having a hard time having a social experience is definitely a personal problem. I would recommend social clubs. Or, opt for a company that’s on-site. I’ve always been pro-choice in this regard. The problem is that companies have to be all or nothing, you can’t 50/50 remote work between people. Some kind of hybrid is also good. Come in for a few hours or a couple days a week. All the benefits of both approaches.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    Telling someone who's already at the stage of self harm to just get out and meet some people is not helpful at all. You can't just "get over" a depression, it's an actual sickness. Now, I see where you're coming from; if you feel that you're a bit less happy without meeting people, suggesting to go out is perfectly reasonable. But from what the OP described, they definitely need professional help (and money is also a really bad reason to ignore severe health problems).
    - barry-cotter 5y ago
      It was not suggested that he get drugs, i.e. go to a psychiatrist. That’s very likely to be immediately helpful. Therapists are crap shoots. Going out and meeting people is something this person could go out and do right now, that they have identified as the root of their problem. The analogy is by no means perfect but we’re talking “Oh, you have scurvy, why don’t you eat five oranges.” levels of direct cause and effect relationship here. There are interventions that reliably have large positive effects on depression for many people. Exercise, sleep deprivation, ketamine. Therapy is great if you find a therapist who vibes with you but it’s the vibes that do it, not the therapy. That’s what the therapeutic relationship is about. If you’re depressed and can manage to try something that might work immediately you should. Therapy is not that. > Client perception: that the client perceives, to at least a minimal degree, the therapist's unconditional positive regard and empathic understanding. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_relationship#:~:text=The%20therapeutic%20relationship%20refers%20to%20the%20relationship%20between,other%20and%20effect%20beneficial%20change%20in%20the%20client https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_relationship#:~:....
gedy 5y ago
Sorry to hear that. I would recommend you build social relationships outside the office even in the best of times, layoffs happen, people leave, companies fold, etc and it's not healthy to depend on work like that.
yrgulation 5y ago
That is why i am not against people wanting onsite. Life is full of nuance. I dont know what kind of advice to give you, but what i found when i was lonely was that changing the setting helped. I lived in london for more than a decade. Despite it being a crowded city i found it quite lonely. I despised that loneliness and my only friends were coworkers. Up until i got “sent” north of england. Suddenly i had a social life, met folks from outside my work and frankly since that point onwards i decided to ditch london for good. One just has to find the inner strength to let people in. Be it through hobbies or randoms there is always a place for everyone. Maybe even changing countries and cultures for more open people can help.
tessierashpool 5y ago
a therapist, or a group for group therapy, can help.
plasma_beam 5y ago
Friend, know that you're not alone in spirit. The past two years have been tough, and many of us have struggled. I hope you find some peace.
brotoss 5y ago
and your point? he literally said doesn't care if other people want to be on site.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
qbasic_forever 5y ago
Parks, gyms, sports, recreation centers, libraries, theaters, concert venues, etc. are all totally open and have been open for full in person activities for much of that last 12 months in every state of the US. Go out and live life, there are near zero restrictions on you seeing other people in person. Almost nowhere requires masks right now either.
VenerablePotage 5y ago
That's horrible. I hope you find a support system that helps you out of this dark place. Do you draw a line directly specific from work-from-home to your current state? In the past couple of years we've globally had economic strife, millions of deaths and political unrest at enormous scale in addition to the switch to Zoom calls. Would -all things being equal- your desire to self harm be eliminated if you and your fellow employees were back to exchanging pleasantries at the office?
vonseel 5y ago
I don’t self-harm, but I agree WFH has been damaging for some of us. Honestly, going to an office everyday just helps me keep a schedule better and makes me more disciplined. It’s very hard for me to be productive when I can get into the habit of just wearing sweatpants all day and barely showering.
lentil_soup 5y ago
If your only option is WFH, would you consider working from a coworking space? I've worked from one the entire pandemic and it has been life changing, only a 5min walk from my house, met great people, get to socialise outside work, etc

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

I was very involved with public transit activism for two decades. One of the most disappointing things about the switch to remote work during the pandemic is how many of my friends I met through transit activism have turned against WFH. We used to push for "commute alternatives" of which both transit and work from home were just two of a range of alternatives. But it turns out much of that was simple lip service to transit alternatives that were easy to support because they weren't widely adopted. Once WFH suddenly gained a large chunk of market share, they got very hostile to it. Transit became the one and only acceptable choice. Turned out that many weren't motivated by wanting to have less dependence on private automobiles that clog up and pollute cities but rather they have a vision of everyone living in dense high rise buildings clustered together in city centers. Even though WFH helps unclog city streets and cleans the air, it is now considered bad because it goes against the ultimate goal of dense cities with plentiful transit to get around within the city. If people can live in low population density areas while eliminating 90% of the miles driven per year, that's considered a bad thing because it doesn't support the urban vision they have that can only work if alternatives aren't allowed to exist. Quite disappointing.

joe_the_user 5y ago
Actually, While never a transit activist, I would be in favor of dense, walkable cities regardless of work-from-home. I think these are more healthy in a multitude of ways. If people can live in low population density areas while eliminating 90% of the miles driven per year, that's considered a bad thing because it doesn't support the urban vision they have that can only work if alternatives aren't allowed to exist. Can you really eliminate 90% of miles driven by doing work-from-home in an entirely car oriented place? I live in small city surrounded by rural areas. Plenty of people have to drive five mile or more to get to anything. If someone did out once every ten days, it would unhealthy in other ways even if it conserved fuel, imo.
- gkop 5y ago
  Not only that but the urban vision could come blasting back. If people spend more time at home, they spend more time in their neighborhoods, so they start to care about neighborhood amenities, and suburban just can't compete with urban in the neighborhood amenities (let's wave away cars/driving, noting that in America most cities are actually fairly friendly for driving, as well as have low-density residential districts that are still much more sustainable than the suburbs). Maybe?

tartoran 5y ago

It costs me $5400 per year more to work in the office than working from home and that is excluding the 35-40 hours a month in commute time.

JackFr 5y ago
So if the company let’s you work from home, how much of that savings should they capture or do you think you should get it all?
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  When they force me to work from home because they are closing the office to save money, how much of that savings should I capture, or do you think they should get it all?
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Nothing because they benefit in their own cost savings ways not to mention savings vary between employees.
- justinhj 5y ago
  They are saving money too; with an increasingly remote workforce they need less space.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  Yeah, let's think about this! Hypothetical time: a new bike path opens up and it goes right past my work and home. I get rid of my car, and save $shitloads on insurance and gas. I now no longer need to spend as much money to get to work! How much of that savings should be captured by my employer, or should I get it all? See the problem? The company isn't saving $5400 of transit-related costs, an employee is. Putting the savings in terms of cuttable salary is kinda ridiculous. Surprisingly, most people work at their jobs in exchange for remuneration, not the satisfaction of reducing costs for their employer; you must be management.

syshum 5y ago

>>saving on food I did not experience this. Even though I did eat out less, I seem to be eating more over all, and with the massive inflation in food costs I seem to be spending more than ever on food. In the office it took effort to get something to eat, i had to drive someone, or prep a meal to bring with me, etc... At home I just have to walk to the kitchen and eat....

bamboozled 5y ago

Yeah, now people just drive around doing leisure activities and buying a lot of sporting equipment. I don't think WFH solves the worlds problems. Before WFH I lived in a city and rode my bike everywhere. Went to a shared gym, because I lived in a city, owning a car was difficult etc. Now I moved away, live in a house, fill it with stuff I probably didn't need and drive around. I will say I do all I can to not drive, I still have my bikes, but I'm still driving 100% more to when I didn't even own a car.