10 ms·
> If Europe will not stop a war in Ukraine in coming 2-3 weeks As a European (living in Poland), I have to take offense to your phrasing. How is it our war to
by NotOscarWilde 5y ago
> If Europe will not stop a war in Ukraine in coming 2-3 weeks
As a European (living in Poland), I have to take offense to your phrasing. How is it our war to stop?
There is one big country that can stop this war, and it is not called "Europe". Everyone here in Central/Eastern Europe is trying to mitigate the damages, with donations, hospitality, volunteering.
Of course, the possibility of a peace treaty being signed also remains, and there is a long debate whether this would be good for Ukraine, good for Europe as a whole, etc., but yet again -- this is not "Europe" that will sign it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- vorpalhex 5y agoEurope may starve if you don't. Not all duties are moral. Some are merely practical.
- Kim_Bruning 5y agoMost of the EU will probably weather it just fine; some of the neighbors not so much. I think declaring war on Russia would have started to look fairly tempting by now, except for the fact that Russia is a nuclear power. Perhaps some sort of red-lining might yet be possible. ("Ok, ok, you've had your fun. We frankly don't care what your actual problem is, but this needs to be over before planting season. And no contaminating the soil either. Figure it out or else"). Before you do that though, you have to figure how much pain you're willing to tolerate before you take that risk-of-nuclear-apocalypse; just because a nuclear state leader is being stupid. I don't envy the people who need to make that particular call. :-/
- dageshi 5y agoEurope for the most part can afford more expensive food, it's other parts of the world that will suffer as the prices get bid up.
- jelliclesfarm 5y agoWestern Europe is very reliant on food imports. It comes from India and China. The Dutch grow glasshouse produce. Pig meat and oil are the main agricultural items. Spain is the one of the main regions growing and exporting. But that’s mostly tomatoes. A lot of production has moved to Morocco and Tunisia. Especially olives(disease in Italy) also: Italian canned San Marzano tomato sauce? Grown and canned in China. Labeled in Italy. Europe will starve. When America and Europe threaten sanctions upon countries like India, it’s laughable. And illiterate. And also hypocritical considering Germany has bought over billions of dollars of oil from Russia since the conflict began. Europe does not have food self sufficiency.
- dageshi 5y agoI'm not sure what your point is exactly? Yes I know europe imports food, if prices rise europe will still import food (although it may import less), it'll just pay more for it and it can afford to. It won't be a cakewalk but western europe won't starve.
- jelliclesfarm 5y agoModern Ag is converting fossil fuels to calories. With sanctions, everything will be disrupted. Supply chain and logistics will affect everything from feed to fuel.
- KptMarchewa 5y agoChina has way, way bigger food trade deficit than EU.
- jelliclesfarm 5y agoIt’s not about trade deficits but about calories for citizens and crop land foot print+productivity
- ben_w 5y agoIf I was in charge of a poor country whose main export was food, I might be inclined to ban the export of food in this situation: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-10/egypt-to-ban-exports-of-staple-foods-to-safeguard-reserves https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-10/egypt-to-... IIRC the EU has a common agricultural policy precisely to prevent food shortages, so it may be OK anyway, I don’t know.
- gambiting 5y agoYes, but how exactly. Poland especially is already looking after 1M+ refugees, what else can they do.
- lelanthran 5y ago> There is one big country that can stop this war, and it is not called "Europe". Which country are you talking about?
- shagmin 5y agoI'm guessing Russia.
- generalizations 5y agoOr Ukraine.
- jokoon 5y agowhat exactly do you want Ukraine to do to stop the war?
- generalizations 5y agoNot 'want'. Why would you assume that? But it seems obvious that Ukraine capitulating would end the war. (Unless it's morally reprehensible for me to even suggest that the good guys might lose. /s) This is what I guess is going on: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30723869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30723869
- TheCoelacanth 5y agoI don't think that's obvious at all. Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia and Ukraine can't make every single Ukrainian stop fighting. Ukraine capitulating would turn it from a war of state against state into a war of occupier against occupied people.
- generalizations 5y agoFair enough. There's definitely an insurgency. I guess the question is if there's enough of one to sustain the guerilla warfare despite both sides wanting an end, and one of those sides wanting an end in order to feed the populace.
- lnsru 5y agoCześć! My initial thought would be humanitarian air lift operation to Ukraine. While closing space for Russian aircrafts. Will Putin Launch nukes immediately afterwards? It’s a good question. Will putin stop after taking Kraków? Or does he need Warszawa? It’s another very good question.
- kkfx 5y agoIMVHO are very wrong questions, like aiming at flame pinnacles instead of the base: why "putin" invade Ukraine? Perhaps because since 2014 (and so probably years before) USA formed and armed nazi militias there? Oh, of course putin is a dictator not much different than nazi, but of course he want to protect his territory. Do remember a thing since WWII end there was Yalta agreements, violated from day zero by NATO with the air bridge to Berlin, with proposed ops like "Operation Unthinkable" and "Operation Dropshot", with Solidarność etc and those activities are still very active around Russians borders. So how to stop the war? Well, arresting the "western puppets governments" in the eastern Europe playing the neutrality card as Finland, Sweden etc have done in the past. That immediately stop a war who advantage FAR more China, USA and UK than Russia or EU. Just try to study history and geopolitics a bit: China? They get a far more dependent Russia witch means far more cheap natural resources, far bigger hi-tech military gear, probably enough with the Chinese industrial system to being able to counter the USA in few years. For USA and UK? Their government are not hyper-contested anymore, they are not at the brink of a civil war anymore because of an outside war. Any move wanted for the Green New Deal, like skyrocketing oil and gas prices, is now justified and so on. Russia? The war is needed by them to secure their borders but it's costly. EU? Being against our own major supplier of natural resources is simply suicidal.
- tiahura 5y agoFrance could end the war if they really wanted to.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]