4 ms·

Is a browser so expensive to maintain? $400m/year?

by themihai 5y ago

zarzavat 5y ago
A web browser is some of the most complicated software in existence.
vbezhenar 5y ago
Mozilla management is so expensive to maintain.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Mozilla management is probably around 1% of the budget, more if you count middle management but I doubt you're discussing positions like those.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    "Mozilla CEO Increased Her Salary From 2.5 Million Dollars to Over 3 Million" This person alone receives around 1% of the budget.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      When she "increased her salary" she became the CEO seemingly without replacing her old role, becoming the only executive.
RobertMiller 5y ago
It's worse than this. While money does not flow from Mozilla Foundation to Mozilla Corporation, the opposite is not true. A lot of the money that Mozilla Corporation manages to make is not spent on Firefox development, but is instead paid to Mozilla Foundation, ostensibly to license the Mozilla brand. The Foundation is actively holding Firefox back with this organizational scheme. > For 2019, the Mozilla Foundation received $15,858,258 per a trademark license agreement with Mozilla Corporation, allowing us to reinvest earnings from our products into advocacy and grant making that grow the internet health movement. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/
mch82 5y ago
Of course. Mozilla is competing for the same talent as Google, Microsoft, and Apple. Browsers are the most important software at those companies because most other software runs on them. The Hacker News community doesn’t seem to appreciate the work Mozilla has done to establish web standards. I’ve experienced what it’s like to be stuck with IE6 and IE11 for a decade, holding back web projects at work. Firefox broke through that inertia and made Google, Amazon, Netflix and other companies possible. Essentially, Firefox made the whole “startup” wave Hacker News rides on possible (though much of that momentum transferred to the App Stores).
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "Mozilla is competing for the same talent as Google, Microsoft, and Apple." Not exactly the same. Many are willing to accept less pay, to work on meaningful open source and not for advertisement.
  - AlphaSite 5y ago
    Maybe 10-20% less, but it’s not enough to meaningfully make a difference.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      20% less would be already quite meaningful. Add to that volunteers who work completely for free, and this could give an edge and I would argue, that this is mainly what keeps firefox alive. Despite their management increasingly acting like a ordinary company. "In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008.[14] On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Mozilla_Foundation_and_Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Mozilla_Foundat...
      - 5y ago

Is a browser so expensive to maintain? $400m/year?

zarzavat 5y ago

A web browser is some of the most complicated software in existence.

vbezhenar 5y ago

Mozilla management is so expensive to maintain.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
Mozilla management is probably around 1% of the budget, more if you count middle management but I doubt you're discussing positions like those.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  "Mozilla CEO Increased Her Salary From 2.5 Million Dollars to Over 3 Million" This person alone receives around 1% of the budget.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    When she "increased her salary" she became the CEO seemingly without replacing her old role, becoming the only executive.

RobertMiller 5y ago

It's worse than this. While money does not flow from Mozilla Foundation to Mozilla Corporation, the opposite is not true. A lot of the money that Mozilla Corporation manages to make is not spent on Firefox development, but is instead paid to Mozilla Foundation, ostensibly to license the Mozilla brand. The Foundation is actively holding Firefox back with this organizational scheme. > For 2019, the Mozilla Foundation received $15,858,258 per a trademark license agreement with Mozilla Corporation, allowing us to reinvest earnings from our products into advocacy and grant making that grow the internet health movement. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2019/

mch82 5y ago

Of course. Mozilla is competing for the same talent as Google, Microsoft, and Apple. Browsers are the most important software at those companies because most other software runs on them. The Hacker News community doesn’t seem to appreciate the work Mozilla has done to establish web standards. I’ve experienced what it’s like to be stuck with IE6 and IE11 for a decade, holding back web projects at work. Firefox broke through that inertia and made Google, Amazon, Netflix and other companies possible. Essentially, Firefox made the whole “startup” wave Hacker News rides on possible (though much of that momentum transferred to the App Stores).

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Mozilla is competing for the same talent as Google, Microsoft, and Apple." Not exactly the same. Many are willing to accept less pay, to work on meaningful open source and not for advertisement.
- AlphaSite 5y ago
  Maybe 10-20% less, but it’s not enough to meaningfully make a difference.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    20% less would be already quite meaningful. Add to that volunteers who work completely for free, and this could give an edge and I would argue, that this is mainly what keeps firefox alive. Despite their management increasingly acting like a ordinary company. "In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008.[14] On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Mozilla_Foundation_and_Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Baker#Mozilla_Foundat...
    - 5y ago