9 ms·

Should you work fixed hours, even if you have a flexible schedule?

110 points by elazzabi_ 5y ago

dazc 5y ago
As someone prone to procrastination, I find keeping a regular routine essential. I tried flexible working but it just became an excuse for doing nothing.
tluyben2 5y ago
I am most productive fixed hours (5 am to around 11am) but I usually work flexible because of ‘life’. So then I get around to 7-8 hours a day instead of doing the same work in 4-6 hours. That is ok for me.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
I find keeping a regular timetable, even when I don't need to, is beneficial to my mental rythm and body clock. Too much reactive/responsive work puts you on permenant alert.
MattPalmer1086 5y ago
This is the sort of thing that's just going to be different for everyone. I personally hate fixed hours. I rest when I need to, work when I have focus. I fit all the aspects of my life in when it's best for me. Some people seem to thrive on regularity and order, which is also fine.
- cpach 5y ago
  Indeed. One should always be sceptical about the idea of “one size fits all”. That’s rarely the case.
Tobu 5y ago
Fixed hours are convenient in that they allow you to reject non-work demands over work time or work demands over non-work time.
arnvidr 5y ago
Fixed hours work for me. Obviously it helps with keeping up with colleagues, but it also somewhat automatically puts me in "work mode" when the clock is there. Being "regular" also helps with goodwill from the employer when I now and then need/want to take extreme advantage of the flexible hours.
Semaphor 5y ago
I’ve been working remote with flexible hours since 2008. Back when I was younger, I preferred flexible. I’d often sleep in, and work late. Nowadays, I wake up between 4 and 5, start working at 6, and finish around 14. Sometimes this gets moved around a bit, but mostly it’s fixed.
- xmaayy 5y ago
  I found that working really early is a key to enjoying remote work. Being done by 2PM lets me get out and do things in daylight regardless of season.
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    My boss is very different, he starts working between 8 and 12 and finishes late at night. But he tends to take longer lunch breaks. And he technically works in the office, but the distance from his home is only about 10 meters ;)
pdimitar 5y ago
I always preferred flexible hours and still mostly do, however I have a lot of stuff to juggle in my personal life and I found that just allocating a few hours in 2 or 3 slots in my day helps me achieve more. So I started doing that. Gym's over, I got my meal, rested for an hour, started feeling energized and I am like "OK, time for a 3-4h work session". I make tea and prepare a 2L of water bottle next to me and I get to it. When I feel even little tired, I stop and rest for a bit, maybe eat again. Rinse and repeat. Works pretty well for me during the last year or so. So if you're flexible hours advocate I'd say combine both. You might not work 8h in one sitting but it will still pay off huge dividends to your mental health to have allocated time slots for focused work.
hericium 5y ago
I have trouble focusing and flexible hours help me avoid wasting work-incapable time on "being at work" (and not doing any). I never billed customers for additional time so was wasting a lot of it on attempts to get some work done, when I couldn't concentrate. Later I was spending additional time on doing actual work. I'm doing flexible remote for a few years now and never been more productive. Less stress from "I can't concentrate" frustration, tidy backlog, more and better work done in less time. More time for other customers or side projects, hobbies and family/social. I'm trying not to be indispensable. I'm there when I'm needed but there is no constant "being on call" feeling.
- sdoering 5y ago
  Sounds great. What did you do? How did you structure client communications to reduce this 'being on call' feeling, if I may ask. That is something I struggle with currently. Working a full-time job and freelancing on the side as well.
  - hericium 5y ago
    I realized SRE is not for me and started grabbing development-like projects and agreements with longer time allotted. I document my work in a way allowing others do changes or continue without me being required to decrypt anything. The communication question is tricky. It's smooth when it's there but I think I kind of act in a way that accents outside in outside contractor. I try to soak as little as possible into corporate structures and from the start show that me not being there is not a problem. It's different with every client or company but I always mention upfront focusing issues. Never an issue in EU but some companies in the US looked down on ADHD as some kind of insanity. I bring results, and in time. In the end it's about being more worth than trouble.
    - raptorraver 5y ago
      This is inspiring! I just started as a freelancer month ago and it's hard for me to get out from 9-5 mindset. I'm not yet sure if I'm expected to put in full hours or just do my best. At the beginning I worked full days but past couple weeks I've billed 6-7 hours a day with the same input as before. I'm also having ADD but haven't brought it up. Still the honeymoon phase of the new project so it's quite easy to get immersed with my super focus.
darkerside 5y ago
There's a difference between working fixed hours, working a fixed amount of time, and working within boundaries. I think it's a level you work your way up. Early career, just work fixed hours. You don't have a sense for what is reasonable yet, and this is a good way to build up a work ethic and understand your limits. Once you're comfortable there, tweak your hours as needed. This might mean working the same irregular hours every day (parents can schedule around their kids) or just making sure that when you hit a number, you call it a day (wake up early and work so you can go hiking in the afternoon). As you get to know yourself better, you'll know when you've put in good day's work, when you have capacity to keep going, and when you need to dial it back. This last stage is important if you aspire to leadership roles. In these roles, you are never done, there is always more you can do to improve your business, so you need to find your sustainable boundary and stick to it.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Unless you own the company, it’s not your business. Act accordingly.
  - ysavir 5y ago
    What's your implication here? That non-owners are lesser and therefor should bend to the wants of the owner? That only owners have a right to the lifestyle they want?
    - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
      That’s one way to look at it, but the opposite from how I read it. My interpretation is not to ruin my health for a company I hold less than 0.5% stock (options) in. The amount of skin I have in this game is not enough to make me sacrifice the little pleasures that keep me sane.
      - ysavir 5y ago
        Thanks! That reading makes sense.
jmyeet 5y ago
This is really a question of the value of having a routine. Routines are a habit-forming exercise and are useful. One thing that's often ignored in such discussions is how your habits affect other people. Chances are you're not holed up in a closet coding in a silo. You're dealing with other people. There will be varying needs fo synchronous communication. Your predictability will help other people do what they need to do.
- asicsp 5y ago
  >Chances are you're not holed up in a closet coding in a silo. You're dealing with other people. I work for myself and having a routine works the best to be productive for me. I suppose it depends on how one handles uncertainty.
  - amcoastal 5y ago
josefresco 5y ago
Business still operates Monday through Friday, 9 AM to 5 PM where I'm from (Northeast US). While I can work anytime, anywhere my clients don't, and therefore I work normal hours. I also have kids so that pretty much decides my schedule for the majority of the year.
boxfoxdox1 5y ago
I started to notice that what is important for me is how I mange my focus hours in a work day. By that I mean hours where I actually generate a product ( writing code, archtectiing etc) as there are days in which I spend just in them meeting and that is exausing. The reson for this is mostly my feeling of days work done, If I dont do at least 3-4h of higly productive focus time I get this feeling of an incomlete day and tend to get lazier over time. So, bar the unforseen, I try to have that checked of my list and it was very beneficial in increasing my efficiency but also being ready to endure meetings. Anyone else feeling odly exhausted after a meeting but not after hours of code?
cpfohl 5y ago
I’ve worked remotely for 9 years now. I’ve worked at jobs with 100% flexible hours for 6 of those. My approach is always changing depending on my life circumstance and the time zones involved. Your home life (significant other or no? Children? Age of children?) wildly changes the calculus. I believe my success in flexible remote work is directly a result of my ability to adapt to either scenario.
raunometsa 5y ago
I've been keeping a list of remote companies who offer flexible hours here if anyone is interested: https://remotehunt.com/remote-companies-with-flexible-working-hours https://remotehunt.com/remote-companies-with-flexible-workin... Let me know how to improve this!
a_c 5y ago
I agree with the article. Either you working for yourself or working as employee, it is important to have a rhythm. It is for both mental and physical preparation. For me, I turned all my commute time into exercise, waking up 3 hours earlier, not waking up later than usual when not working and shortene my working hour. It felt so good
browningstreet 5y ago
I work very fixed hours. If anyone needs me outside of that, fine... but I have an "online and working" start and end date, every day. I've worked in start-ups where people come and go at random hours, including the founders. Consistency hasn't always been treated as a positive trait. I'm a bit older now, I work in the enterprise, I WFH, I keep my set hours. Some in my current enterprise have "unlimited vacation". They tend to keep very inconsistent working schedules. It's a mixed org in that sense. It started because I never wanted to miss my gym times. I work out before work but don't alter that schedule for anything.
k__ 5y ago
Depends on how good you are at organizing and how much you have to work to pay for your life. I have to work 10-20h a week, which is rather easy to distribute around the week. But some people have to work 40-100h a week, which can get problematic if they don't plan them early on.
wink 5y ago
I very much prefer fixed hours while keeping some leeway. If nothing is planned or extraordinary happens, I like to start at 8-8:30 and then do my normal hours, but I do like the flexibility of starting later when there's something happening in the morning or leave early sometimes. But I think in most teams I've worked I've been one of the more boring "probably available at the default times" person. But I think it 90% boils down to the fact that I like to finish early. If I was just doing 4h per day I could do the "start at noon" thing, but I would probably still try to be done by 2pm - and this is not related to liking or disliking my current job, even if I love it I prefer to finish at 5 over 8.
lambic 5y ago
This is similar to the common advice of "always get dressed before you start work". Maybe that's helpful to a lot of people, but I get just as much done in pyjamas.
ge96 5y ago
Personal opinion Until I'm free (FU money) seems have to stick to 9-5. Especially if you coordinate/work with other people at normal business hours. I develop/maintain the tech/servers and I was sleeping during business hours one time and something broke... yeah. Panic like "it's broken help" but I was not there. My problem is my sleep pattern keeps shifting... I'll get back on 9-5 then I overshoot it, I'll force myself to stay up to the next day so I can sleep just before normal time and wake up normally eg. before 9 AM. The goal will be to not care/not need to abide by 9-5. Or get another person that is like me so they can cover/replace me.
foxbarrington 5y ago
I've seen a lot of new-to-remote engineers get themselves in trouble with this. The ideal case is that you can just work whenever and submit/review any PRs asynchronously. What happens instead is that they hit a problem and are blocked or spinning their wheels at 2am because nobody else is awake to help them. Alternatively, they toss something over the fence, disappear, and their work is useless for another full day until they address a comment or last-minute issue.
mkl95 5y ago
If you have a flexible schedule, usually your coworkers / bosses will expect you to be flexible to some degree. Whether that's positive or negative depends on your expectations and your employer's culture. Some companies idea of flexibility is pretty linear and predictable, while others are all over the place.
danlugo92 5y ago
Yes

110 points by elazzabi_ 5y ago

dazc 5y ago

As someone prone to procrastination, I find keeping a regular routine essential. I tried flexible working but it just became an excuse for doing nothing.

tluyben2 5y ago

I am most productive fixed hours (5 am to around 11am) but I usually work flexible because of ‘life’. So then I get around to 7-8 hours a day instead of doing the same work in 4-6 hours. That is ok for me.

nonrandomstring 5y ago

I find keeping a regular timetable, even when I don't need to, is beneficial to my mental rythm and body clock. Too much reactive/responsive work puts you on permenant alert.

MattPalmer1086 5y ago

This is the sort of thing that's just going to be different for everyone. I personally hate fixed hours. I rest when I need to, work when I have focus. I fit all the aspects of my life in when it's best for me. Some people seem to thrive on regularity and order, which is also fine.

cpach 5y ago
Indeed. One should always be sceptical about the idea of “one size fits all”. That’s rarely the case.

Tobu 5y ago

Fixed hours are convenient in that they allow you to reject non-work demands over work time or work demands over non-work time.

arnvidr 5y ago

Fixed hours work for me. Obviously it helps with keeping up with colleagues, but it also somewhat automatically puts me in "work mode" when the clock is there. Being "regular" also helps with goodwill from the employer when I now and then need/want to take extreme advantage of the flexible hours.

Semaphor 5y ago

I’ve been working remote with flexible hours since 2008. Back when I was younger, I preferred flexible. I’d often sleep in, and work late. Nowadays, I wake up between 4 and 5, start working at 6, and finish around 14. Sometimes this gets moved around a bit, but mostly it’s fixed.

xmaayy 5y ago
I found that working really early is a key to enjoying remote work. Being done by 2PM lets me get out and do things in daylight regardless of season.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  My boss is very different, he starts working between 8 and 12 and finishes late at night. But he tends to take longer lunch breaks. And he technically works in the office, but the distance from his home is only about 10 meters ;)

pdimitar 5y ago

I always preferred flexible hours and still mostly do, however I have a lot of stuff to juggle in my personal life and I found that just allocating a few hours in 2 or 3 slots in my day helps me achieve more. So I started doing that. Gym's over, I got my meal, rested for an hour, started feeling energized and I am like "OK, time for a 3-4h work session". I make tea and prepare a 2L of water bottle next to me and I get to it. When I feel even little tired, I stop and rest for a bit, maybe eat again. Rinse and repeat. Works pretty well for me during the last year or so. So if you're flexible hours advocate I'd say combine both. You might not work 8h in one sitting but it will still pay off huge dividends to your mental health to have allocated time slots for focused work.

hericium 5y ago

I have trouble focusing and flexible hours help me avoid wasting work-incapable time on "being at work" (and not doing any). I never billed customers for additional time so was wasting a lot of it on attempts to get some work done, when I couldn't concentrate. Later I was spending additional time on doing actual work. I'm doing flexible remote for a few years now and never been more productive. Less stress from "I can't concentrate" frustration, tidy backlog, more and better work done in less time. More time for other customers or side projects, hobbies and family/social. I'm trying not to be indispensable. I'm there when I'm needed but there is no constant "being on call" feeling.

sdoering 5y ago
Sounds great. What did you do? How did you structure client communications to reduce this 'being on call' feeling, if I may ask. That is something I struggle with currently. Working a full-time job and freelancing on the side as well.
- hericium 5y ago
  I realized SRE is not for me and started grabbing development-like projects and agreements with longer time allotted. I document my work in a way allowing others do changes or continue without me being required to decrypt anything. The communication question is tricky. It's smooth when it's there but I think I kind of act in a way that accents outside in outside contractor. I try to soak as little as possible into corporate structures and from the start show that me not being there is not a problem. It's different with every client or company but I always mention upfront focusing issues. Never an issue in EU but some companies in the US looked down on ADHD as some kind of insanity. I bring results, and in time. In the end it's about being more worth than trouble.
  - raptorraver 5y ago
    This is inspiring! I just started as a freelancer month ago and it's hard for me to get out from 9-5 mindset. I'm not yet sure if I'm expected to put in full hours or just do my best. At the beginning I worked full days but past couple weeks I've billed 6-7 hours a day with the same input as before. I'm also having ADD but haven't brought it up. Still the honeymoon phase of the new project so it's quite easy to get immersed with my super focus.

darkerside 5y ago

There's a difference between working fixed hours, working a fixed amount of time, and working within boundaries. I think it's a level you work your way up. Early career, just work fixed hours. You don't have a sense for what is reasonable yet, and this is a good way to build up a work ethic and understand your limits. Once you're comfortable there, tweak your hours as needed. This might mean working the same irregular hours every day (parents can schedule around their kids) or just making sure that when you hit a number, you call it a day (wake up early and work so you can go hiking in the afternoon). As you get to know yourself better, you'll know when you've put in good day's work, when you have capacity to keep going, and when you need to dial it back. This last stage is important if you aspire to leadership roles. In these roles, you are never done, there is always more you can do to improve your business, so you need to find your sustainable boundary and stick to it.

scarface74 5y ago
Unless you own the company, it’s not your business. Act accordingly.
- ysavir 5y ago
  What's your implication here? That non-owners are lesser and therefor should bend to the wants of the owner? That only owners have a right to the lifestyle they want?
  - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
    That’s one way to look at it, but the opposite from how I read it. My interpretation is not to ruin my health for a company I hold less than 0.5% stock (options) in. The amount of skin I have in this game is not enough to make me sacrifice the little pleasures that keep me sane.
    - ysavir 5y ago
      Thanks! That reading makes sense.

jmyeet 5y ago

This is really a question of the value of having a routine. Routines are a habit-forming exercise and are useful. One thing that's often ignored in such discussions is how your habits affect other people. Chances are you're not holed up in a closet coding in a silo. You're dealing with other people. There will be varying needs fo synchronous communication. Your predictability will help other people do what they need to do.

asicsp 5y ago
>Chances are you're not holed up in a closet coding in a silo. You're dealing with other people. I work for myself and having a routine works the best to be productive for me. I suppose it depends on how one handles uncertainty.
- amcoastal 5y ago

josefresco 5y ago

Business still operates Monday through Friday, 9 AM to 5 PM where I'm from (Northeast US). While I can work anytime, anywhere my clients don't, and therefore I work normal hours. I also have kids so that pretty much decides my schedule for the majority of the year.

boxfoxdox1 5y ago

I started to notice that what is important for me is how I mange my focus hours in a work day. By that I mean hours where I actually generate a product ( writing code, archtectiing etc) as there are days in which I spend just in them meeting and that is exausing. The reson for this is mostly my feeling of days work done, If I dont do at least 3-4h of higly productive focus time I get this feeling of an incomlete day and tend to get lazier over time. So, bar the unforseen, I try to have that checked of my list and it was very beneficial in increasing my efficiency but also being ready to endure meetings. Anyone else feeling odly exhausted after a meeting but not after hours of code?

cpfohl 5y ago

I’ve worked remotely for 9 years now. I’ve worked at jobs with 100% flexible hours for 6 of those. My approach is always changing depending on my life circumstance and the time zones involved. Your home life (significant other or no? Children? Age of children?) wildly changes the calculus. I believe my success in flexible remote work is directly a result of my ability to adapt to either scenario.

raunometsa 5y ago

I've been keeping a list of remote companies who offer flexible hours here if anyone is interested: https://remotehunt.com/remote-companies-with-flexible-working-hours https://remotehunt.com/remote-companies-with-flexible-workin... Let me know how to improve this!

a_c 5y ago

I agree with the article. Either you working for yourself or working as employee, it is important to have a rhythm. It is for both mental and physical preparation. For me, I turned all my commute time into exercise, waking up 3 hours earlier, not waking up later than usual when not working and shortene my working hour. It felt so good

browningstreet 5y ago

I work very fixed hours. If anyone needs me outside of that, fine... but I have an "online and working" start and end date, every day. I've worked in start-ups where people come and go at random hours, including the founders. Consistency hasn't always been treated as a positive trait. I'm a bit older now, I work in the enterprise, I WFH, I keep my set hours. Some in my current enterprise have "unlimited vacation". They tend to keep very inconsistent working schedules. It's a mixed org in that sense. It started because I never wanted to miss my gym times. I work out before work but don't alter that schedule for anything.

k__ 5y ago

Depends on how good you are at organizing and how much you have to work to pay for your life. I have to work 10-20h a week, which is rather easy to distribute around the week. But some people have to work 40-100h a week, which can get problematic if they don't plan them early on.

wink 5y ago

I very much prefer fixed hours while keeping some leeway. If nothing is planned or extraordinary happens, I like to start at 8-8:30 and then do my normal hours, but I do like the flexibility of starting later when there's something happening in the morning or leave early sometimes. But I think in most teams I've worked I've been one of the more boring "probably available at the default times" person. But I think it 90% boils down to the fact that I like to finish early. If I was just doing 4h per day I could do the "start at noon" thing, but I would probably still try to be done by 2pm - and this is not related to liking or disliking my current job, even if I love it I prefer to finish at 5 over 8.

lambic 5y ago

This is similar to the common advice of "always get dressed before you start work". Maybe that's helpful to a lot of people, but I get just as much done in pyjamas.

ge96 5y ago

Personal opinion Until I'm free (FU money) seems have to stick to 9-5. Especially if you coordinate/work with other people at normal business hours. I develop/maintain the tech/servers and I was sleeping during business hours one time and something broke... yeah. Panic like "it's broken help" but I was not there. My problem is my sleep pattern keeps shifting... I'll get back on 9-5 then I overshoot it, I'll force myself to stay up to the next day so I can sleep just before normal time and wake up normally eg. before 9 AM. The goal will be to not care/not need to abide by 9-5. Or get another person that is like me so they can cover/replace me.

foxbarrington 5y ago

I've seen a lot of new-to-remote engineers get themselves in trouble with this. The ideal case is that you can just work whenever and submit/review any PRs asynchronously. What happens instead is that they hit a problem and are blocked or spinning their wheels at 2am because nobody else is awake to help them. Alternatively, they toss something over the fence, disappear, and their work is useless for another full day until they address a comment or last-minute issue.

mkl95 5y ago

If you have a flexible schedule, usually your coworkers / bosses will expect you to be flexible to some degree. Whether that's positive or negative depends on your expectations and your employer's culture. Some companies idea of flexibility is pretty linear and predictable, while others are all over the place.

danlugo92 5y ago

Yes