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I had a go at smaller keyboards - tried a 65% to see how I'd like it. And honestly - it was annoying. I know you can have layers and your hands move less, but h

I had a go at smaller keyboards - tried a 65% to see how I'd like it. And honestly - it was annoying. I know you can have layers and your hands move less, but having to press three keys for say, tilda (shift + fn + esc) is just silly. I'd rather just roam my hand around, my muscle memory is pretty good. These days my main is an 1800 keyboard, numpad and all, and it's fine.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
> I know you can have layers and your hands move less, but having to press three keys for say, tilda (shift + fn + esc) is just silly. I'd rather just roam my hand around, my muscle memory is pretty good. Yup. That's why the best format for me is the "84 key" or "75%", which is roughly "laptop layout". You get all the Fx keys, arrows, home/end/etc, but no numpad, and it's smaller than the "tenkeyless" format. I find it much more comfortable for having the mouse closer. For some reason, this format doesn't seem as widespread as the one without the Fx row.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Yes! I don't lock my hands on the home keys, so roaming around the keyboard isn't a carpal tunnel nightmare as some make out. I just move my whole arm a bit. I rest my hands on the laptop's left and right edges, not on the home keys... and no I don't "hunt and peck", I touch-type at 90wpm. But I love function keys, give me more function keys! I dream of the Hyper7 [1] [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/hyper_7_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/hyper_7_keyboard.html
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    Yes! I don't lock my hands on the home keys, so roaming around the keyboard isn't a carpal tunnel nightmare as some make out. I just move my whole arm a bit. I wonder if some of these preferences have to do with how long your fingers are. It wouldn't even occur to me to try and access the F row from homehow without moving my arm. But if my fingers were a bit longer I could see how I might do it, even if it wasn't good for my joints.
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      I'd expect finger length and even ratio between them to play an important role. I was talking with a friend about how he had issues reaching some keys which seem easy to reach for me. And I don't think I have particularly big hands, I can't reach any F key if my fingers are on the home row. I can barely reach 4 and 8, but it's uncomfortable.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  Exactly what I have been using for years - its nice they are finally getting more popular. I bought one almost 10 years ago now and it was one of the only models available. Still typing on it right now and it looks almost new. Cherry MX Blacks ftw
CarVac 5y ago
Layers need more thumb keys than a standard keyboard allows, in my opinion.
- MivLives 5y ago
  Split space keyboards are a thing, though not as common. One of the reasons I ended up with a split ergo board was to increase the use of my thumbs on the keyboard.
kitsunesoba 5y ago
That tilde combo thing is why I only use 60% and 65% keyboards that offer the layout option known as “split backspace” — that is, the backspace key is moved moved down to where the pipe/backslash key normally is, and in backspace’s normal position there’s two 1u keys: pipe/backslash and tilde/grave. This also makes backspace easier to reach for my small-medium sized hands, which I didn’t know was a problem until I tried a split backspace board for a while. In a similar vein, I also find split right shift which carves 1u off the right end of the right shift key to add an Fn key nice for improving quality of life on 60/65% boards. For me that Fn positioning is much more natural, plus it puts that duty on my right hand which is typically much less loaded down with modifiers than my left hand is.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  split backspace - like this? https://i.redd.it/vjbpi0rtx1q41.jpg https://i.redd.it/vjbpi0rtx1q41.jpg I guess in this case delete/back space are the same key. which makes sense. well until you want to press ctrl+delete or ctrl+backspace. Think I need pics here.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    Yep HHKB is a great example of both split backspace and split right shift. In the case of the HHKB specifically Fn+tilde is Del, but most boards allow this to be remapped.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  Do you have some recommendations for keyboards that fit that layout? Tilde being on the Fn layer of Esc was never a problem for me on my Poker until I changed jobs and suddenly was writing much more Markdown than before.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    For 60% boards, the HHKB (Happy Hacker’s Keyboard) which is built with Topre switches mentioned in my other comments has this layout. There’s also boards with MX style switches that mimic the HHKB, such as the Tokyo60. For 65%, things get more spotty. Off the top of my head I’m not aware of any prebuilt 65% boards that use this layout. For both 60% and 65%, there’s a huge number of build-it-yourself kits as well as separate PCBs, cases, etc that support this layout. It’s a bit of a rabbit hole (as alluded to with this post’s title), but if you have the patience by far building your own board gives you the greatest degree of control.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bcrosby95 5y ago
My 60% doesn't require 3 keypresses for any key. This is with out of the box configuration (vortex pok3r). Muscle memory is something you gain over time regardless. I was just tired of my keyboard taking up so much deskspace when I basically never used 30% of the keys on it.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  I stand corrected.

vladvasiliu 5y ago

> I know you can have layers and your hands move less, but having to press three keys for say, tilda (shift + fn + esc) is just silly. I'd rather just roam my hand around, my muscle memory is pretty good. Yup. That's why the best format for me is the "84 key" or "75%", which is roughly "laptop layout". You get all the Fx keys, arrows, home/end/etc, but no numpad, and it's smaller than the "tenkeyless" format. I find it much more comfortable for having the mouse closer. For some reason, this format doesn't seem as widespread as the one without the Fx row.

medstrom 5y ago
Yes! I don't lock my hands on the home keys, so roaming around the keyboard isn't a carpal tunnel nightmare as some make out. I just move my whole arm a bit. I rest my hands on the laptop's left and right edges, not on the home keys... and no I don't "hunt and peck", I touch-type at 90wpm. But I love function keys, give me more function keys! I dream of the Hyper7 [1] [1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/hyper_7_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/hyper_7_keyboard.html
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  Yes! I don't lock my hands on the home keys, so roaming around the keyboard isn't a carpal tunnel nightmare as some make out. I just move my whole arm a bit. I wonder if some of these preferences have to do with how long your fingers are. It wouldn't even occur to me to try and access the F row from homehow without moving my arm. But if my fingers were a bit longer I could see how I might do it, even if it wasn't good for my joints.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    I'd expect finger length and even ratio between them to play an important role. I was talking with a friend about how he had issues reaching some keys which seem easy to reach for me. And I don't think I have particularly big hands, I can't reach any F key if my fingers are on the home row. I can barely reach 4 and 8, but it's uncomfortable.
Melatonic 5y ago
Exactly what I have been using for years - its nice they are finally getting more popular. I bought one almost 10 years ago now and it was one of the only models available. Still typing on it right now and it looks almost new. Cherry MX Blacks ftw

CarVac 5y ago

Layers need more thumb keys than a standard keyboard allows, in my opinion.

MivLives 5y ago
Split space keyboards are a thing, though not as common. One of the reasons I ended up with a split ergo board was to increase the use of my thumbs on the keyboard.

kitsunesoba 5y ago

That tilde combo thing is why I only use 60% and 65% keyboards that offer the layout option known as “split backspace” — that is, the backspace key is moved moved down to where the pipe/backslash key normally is, and in backspace’s normal position there’s two 1u keys: pipe/backslash and tilde/grave. This also makes backspace easier to reach for my small-medium sized hands, which I didn’t know was a problem until I tried a split backspace board for a while. In a similar vein, I also find split right shift which carves 1u off the right end of the right shift key to add an Fn key nice for improving quality of life on 60/65% boards. For me that Fn positioning is much more natural, plus it puts that duty on my right hand which is typically much less loaded down with modifiers than my left hand is.

LAC-Tech 5y ago
split backspace - like this? https://i.redd.it/vjbpi0rtx1q41.jpg https://i.redd.it/vjbpi0rtx1q41.jpg I guess in this case delete/back space are the same key. which makes sense. well until you want to press ctrl+delete or ctrl+backspace. Think I need pics here.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  Yep HHKB is a great example of both split backspace and split right shift. In the case of the HHKB specifically Fn+tilde is Del, but most boards allow this to be remapped.
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
Do you have some recommendations for keyboards that fit that layout? Tilde being on the Fn layer of Esc was never a problem for me on my Poker until I changed jobs and suddenly was writing much more Markdown than before.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  For 60% boards, the HHKB (Happy Hacker’s Keyboard) which is built with Topre switches mentioned in my other comments has this layout. There’s also boards with MX style switches that mimic the HHKB, such as the Tokyo60. For 65%, things get more spotty. Off the top of my head I’m not aware of any prebuilt 65% boards that use this layout. For both 60% and 65%, there’s a huge number of build-it-yourself kits as well as separate PCBs, cases, etc that support this layout. It’s a bit of a rabbit hole (as alluded to with this post’s title), but if you have the patience by far building your own board gives you the greatest degree of control.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bcrosby95 5y ago

My 60% doesn't require 3 keypresses for any key. This is with out of the box configuration (vortex pok3r). Muscle memory is something you gain over time regardless. I was just tired of my keyboard taking up so much deskspace when I basically never used 30% of the keys on it.

LAC-Tech 5y ago
I stand corrected.