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Baloney. We had computers for decades before we had GPUs. And considering most computers are just used for browsing the web, writing documents, and writing code

Baloney. We had computers for decades before we had GPUs. And considering most computers are just used for browsing the web, writing documents, and writing code, most people rarely touch their GPU (YouTube being Media Engine Decoding and not technically the GPU). Even my job - I write web apps, I don't need a GPU. If it can play audio through a headphone jack, and draw a window nicely without aggravating amounts of tearing (though I might work in a full-screen CLI anyway), I don't care, it's Linux! [Edit: I'm not disputing a GPU is nice to have. I am dismissing the overly negative reply above.]

ravi-delia 5y ago
I wouldn't call the comment you replied to overly negative, at least by the text alone. Look at the full unsupported list; there's a lot of work left. Considering the pace the project has moved so far, I suspect we'll see most of it in the coming months, but for now there are big gaps. I mean, if all you want is browsing and a headphone out, why an M1? Any cheap device could do the same. The magic is in the "unnecessary" other things, like speedy rendering or, you know, speakers. It's coming for sure, probably soon, but not quite yet.
- bestouff 5y ago
  It depends for who. I just need a fast mobile machine with lots of RAM for doing compilations and CPU-intensive work. I don't care about the GPU or sound. An M1 with Asahi looks fantastic to me.
zamalek 5y ago
Baloney. If you want a Linux laptop, there are currently systems with purposeful Linux support. Asahi is an amazing feat, but panders to Apple's bullshit.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Couldn't have said it better myself. I genuinely respect the people who are capable of doing stuff like this, but genuflecting yourself at the altar of propriety is a shameful act, and there's no respect in licking the boots of a company that has kicked OSS in the teeth more times than you can count.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    You might say they have kicked right to repair in the teeth many times, but OSS? Ha no, this is the company that brought us WebKit (browser engine) which later brought us Blink, and also brought us CUPS (which is what allows Linux to print right now - there's Apple code in your Linux distribution for everyday functionality, gasp!) They've also done a ton of work and basically brought us LLVM which many Linux systems use as part of compiling.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > brought us WebKit (browser engine) Yes, the browser engine that had to be forked because Apple neglected it for so long. Brilliant example! > and also brought us CUPS Nope. That would be Michael Sweet. Apple later hired the main developer behind the effort, and adopted the standard as their own. Same thing happened with LLVM, so don't go around spreading those particular lies. Got anything else? All of your examples seem to be instances where Apple has neglected Open Source or just threw money at something they were incapable of competing with. > there's Apple code in your Linux distribution for everyday functionality, gasp! Man, wait until you hear who contributed the POSIX APIs, SMP support, multitasking/multiuser functionality and the entire networking stack to MacOS... ;)
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      Nitpick, partly because I suspect someone else will bring it up if I don’t, webkit didn’t start at Apple. I do think Apple’s open source contributions are largely undersold, although they’ve probably contributed less than other technology companies their size (e.g. Google).
frozenport 5y ago
GPUs are more power efficient at rendering, which is important for mobile applications. GUIs will essentially emulate the GPU in software and reduce battery life.
olliej 5y ago
The resolution of modern displays is such that you want specialized hardware doing the work. Modern font rendering engines run on GPUs as well now, because the resolution increases faster than single threaded speed. GPUs are also more power efficient at many of these things, because while they use more power while running they get done sufficiently quickly that they end up ahead. That’s before you include the power savings from rapidly dropping the power mode. Note that this isn’t specific to AS, or even arm in general: every laptop wants to get to low power as fast as possible, because constant low-ish power is much worse than brief spikes that you can disable power between.
sudosysgen 5y ago
A GPU is an absolute must have for a laptop. Seriously. If you software render everything, your battery life will be horrible. The only reason modern laptops have 10h+ battery life is because of GPUs. Sure, without it you can manage, your power efficiency will just massively tank. However, this could be absolutely amazing for the new M1 desktops, or for the M1 Mac Mini. It could make a kick-ass server.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  And yet we're getting ~8h of battery life on these machines with software rendering. Did I mention the hardware is just that good? :-)
  - kergonath 5y ago
    Well, it could be better ;) Seriously though, you’re all doing a very impressive work!
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I'm sure that's fine for terminal usage, but seriously; who out there is going to daily-drive a laptop that has a non-functional GPU? This line of reasoning sounds like you're trying to compensate for the fact that GPU support is a long ways away, and that we may well have an M2 on store shelves before you've even got M1 support to a usable point.
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      "I'm sure that's fine for terminal usage, but seriously; who out there is going to daily-drive a laptop that has a non-functional GPU?" Then how did Integrated Graphics sell so well in the broader marketplace? You'd think with their near-useless GPUs that were weaker than M1's software rendering that nobody could use them. Also, whatever about M2 - Apple has structured their hardware to require minimum driver changes on each release. M2 will probably just be a few patches on the core driver, not a rewrite.
      - 5y ago

ravi-delia 5y ago

I wouldn't call the comment you replied to overly negative, at least by the text alone. Look at the full unsupported list; there's a lot of work left. Considering the pace the project has moved so far, I suspect we'll see most of it in the coming months, but for now there are big gaps. I mean, if all you want is browsing and a headphone out, why an M1? Any cheap device could do the same. The magic is in the "unnecessary" other things, like speedy rendering or, you know, speakers. It's coming for sure, probably soon, but not quite yet.

bestouff 5y ago
It depends for who. I just need a fast mobile machine with lots of RAM for doing compilations and CPU-intensive work. I don't care about the GPU or sound. An M1 with Asahi looks fantastic to me.

zamalek 5y ago

Baloney. If you want a Linux laptop, there are currently systems with purposeful Linux support. Asahi is an amazing feat, but panders to Apple's bullshit.

smoldesu 5y ago
Couldn't have said it better myself. I genuinely respect the people who are capable of doing stuff like this, but genuflecting yourself at the altar of propriety is a shameful act, and there's no respect in licking the boots of a company that has kicked OSS in the teeth more times than you can count.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  You might say they have kicked right to repair in the teeth many times, but OSS? Ha no, this is the company that brought us WebKit (browser engine) which later brought us Blink, and also brought us CUPS (which is what allows Linux to print right now - there's Apple code in your Linux distribution for everyday functionality, gasp!) They've also done a ton of work and basically brought us LLVM which many Linux systems use as part of compiling.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > brought us WebKit (browser engine) Yes, the browser engine that had to be forked because Apple neglected it for so long. Brilliant example! > and also brought us CUPS Nope. That would be Michael Sweet. Apple later hired the main developer behind the effort, and adopted the standard as their own. Same thing happened with LLVM, so don't go around spreading those particular lies. Got anything else? All of your examples seem to be instances where Apple has neglected Open Source or just threw money at something they were incapable of competing with. > there's Apple code in your Linux distribution for everyday functionality, gasp! Man, wait until you hear who contributed the POSIX APIs, SMP support, multitasking/multiuser functionality and the entire networking stack to MacOS... ;)
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Nitpick, partly because I suspect someone else will bring it up if I don’t, webkit didn’t start at Apple. I do think Apple’s open source contributions are largely undersold, although they’ve probably contributed less than other technology companies their size (e.g. Google).

frozenport 5y ago

GPUs are more power efficient at rendering, which is important for mobile applications. GUIs will essentially emulate the GPU in software and reduce battery life.

olliej 5y ago

The resolution of modern displays is such that you want specialized hardware doing the work. Modern font rendering engines run on GPUs as well now, because the resolution increases faster than single threaded speed. GPUs are also more power efficient at many of these things, because while they use more power while running they get done sufficiently quickly that they end up ahead. That’s before you include the power savings from rapidly dropping the power mode. Note that this isn’t specific to AS, or even arm in general: every laptop wants to get to low power as fast as possible, because constant low-ish power is much worse than brief spikes that you can disable power between.

sudosysgen 5y ago

A GPU is an absolute must have for a laptop. Seriously. If you software render everything, your battery life will be horrible. The only reason modern laptops have 10h+ battery life is because of GPUs. Sure, without it you can manage, your power efficiency will just massively tank. However, this could be absolutely amazing for the new M1 desktops, or for the M1 Mac Mini. It could make a kick-ass server.

marcan_42 5y ago
And yet we're getting ~8h of battery life on these machines with software rendering. Did I mention the hardware is just that good? :-)
- kergonath 5y ago
  Well, it could be better ;) Seriously though, you’re all doing a very impressive work!
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I'm sure that's fine for terminal usage, but seriously; who out there is going to daily-drive a laptop that has a non-functional GPU? This line of reasoning sounds like you're trying to compensate for the fact that GPU support is a long ways away, and that we may well have an M2 on store shelves before you've even got M1 support to a usable point.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    "I'm sure that's fine for terminal usage, but seriously; who out there is going to daily-drive a laptop that has a non-functional GPU?" Then how did Integrated Graphics sell so well in the broader marketplace? You'd think with their near-useless GPUs that were weaker than M1's software rendering that nobody could use them. Also, whatever about M2 - Apple has structured their hardware to require minimum driver changes on each release. M2 will probably just be a few patches on the core driver, not a rewrite.
    - 5y ago