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> of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop. It's been exporting it for years, to wh

> of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop. It's been exporting it for years, to whoever will take it. > the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food production is a big industrial business, not something little player can run and compete I'm afraid you entirely lost me here. This (meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication.

kkfx 5y ago
> The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance... > meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication Meat can be done at small scale, no matter the profit. You can easy raise chickens in your own backyard, nourishing them with some insects and various food waste if you can't have a bit of grains. They reproduce autonomously for almost the entire year and in 4-5-6 month you can slaughter them at home. That means you can at a hyper-small scale source proteins to keep yourself alive if needed. At a slightly bigger scale a S.E. can easily live selling eggs and meat. At a slightly bigger scale you can have goats and sheep, from a region of the earth to another it's just change the size of land needed to nourish a flock, goats and sheep live normally in rural central Asia, in place almost desertic for a hyper-large part of the year, they also live in Scandinavia and similarly in various part of Africa. At a slightly bigger scale came pigs and cows. On contrary to nourish people with crackers made from grains and dried insects as the Green New Deal want you need factories. You need automated systems to dry insects (alive, of course) grind them into flour, cut this flour with the corn flour, add flavor enhancers and various other synthetic chemical compounds, package everything etc. That can't be done at a small scale. That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done as we have done in the early age of humanity, surely it's not much living then surviving doing as such BUT it's still possible, so anyone can potentially do just owning land in almost any part of the world, it's just a matter of how much land is needed per human being. That's is... To preserve meat you just need salt (yes saltpetre help, but it's not mandatory) and salt can be easily sourced from the see and in some lands without any specific tech. Making salami, hams etc demand nothing more (the casings are obtained from the animal). I hope I have clarified now :-)
- rosndo 5y ago
  > That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done This is a hilarious conspiracy theory. (((They))) want to stop people from being able to live without industry because … there is such a huge population willing to do that? Right.
  - kkfx 5y ago
    I honestly see no "conspiracy theory": "they", intended as the neoliberals, have declared their intentions even in books like Value(s): Building a Better World for All by Mark Carney (ex UK national bank head) or Covid-19: The Great Reset, by Klaus Schwab and Thierry Malleret. The WEF publish a big load of resources as well, starting from the famous 2015-16 video about 2030's agenda. Essentially all such publishing depict a society when individuals own nothing and depend of very few hyper-giant conglomerate/zaibatsu/chaebol -alike private companies. A conspiracy is something done in the dark, definitively not publishing plan for anyone who want to read... Oh, BTW you can see trends everywhere to confirm those publications: start from the IT, how many do use someone else computers instead of their own iron? How many do have their emails locally, using them locally and relay on third parties just for IMAP and SMTP? How many leave their files on cloud "drives"? Keep going with cars: how many connected cars are on the market where the formal owner can't even repair hes/shes own vehicle? How many choose leasing instead of buying? How many rent a house and how are the trends of real estate market? In the past was normal in most countries owning a house, was normal owning a car that can be repaired by anyone, was normal have personal archives on personal archival systems first on paper and than with desktop computers and so on. Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents?
    - rosndo 5y ago
      > Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents? My great-grandparents were very well off for their time, but I’d rather be a poor person (in Europe) today than swap places with them.

kkfx 5y ago

> The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance... > meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication Meat can be done at small scale, no matter the profit. You can easy raise chickens in your own backyard, nourishing them with some insects and various food waste if you can't have a bit of grains. They reproduce autonomously for almost the entire year and in 4-5-6 month you can slaughter them at home. That means you can at a hyper-small scale source proteins to keep yourself alive if needed. At a slightly bigger scale a S.E. can easily live selling eggs and meat. At a slightly bigger scale you can have goats and sheep, from a region of the earth to another it's just change the size of land needed to nourish a flock, goats and sheep live normally in rural central Asia, in place almost desertic for a hyper-large part of the year, they also live in Scandinavia and similarly in various part of Africa. At a slightly bigger scale came pigs and cows. On contrary to nourish people with crackers made from grains and dried insects as the Green New Deal want you need factories. You need automated systems to dry insects (alive, of course) grind them into flour, cut this flour with the corn flour, add flavor enhancers and various other synthetic chemical compounds, package everything etc. That can't be done at a small scale. That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done as we have done in the early age of humanity, surely it's not much living then surviving doing as such BUT it's still possible, so anyone can potentially do just owning land in almost any part of the world, it's just a matter of how much land is needed per human being. That's is... To preserve meat you just need salt (yes saltpetre help, but it's not mandatory) and salt can be easily sourced from the see and in some lands without any specific tech. Making salami, hams etc demand nothing more (the casings are obtained from the animal). I hope I have clarified now :-)

rosndo 5y ago
> That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done This is a hilarious conspiracy theory. (((They))) want to stop people from being able to live without industry because … there is such a huge population willing to do that? Right.
- kkfx 5y ago
  I honestly see no "conspiracy theory": "they", intended as the neoliberals, have declared their intentions even in books like Value(s): Building a Better World for All by Mark Carney (ex UK national bank head) or Covid-19: The Great Reset, by Klaus Schwab and Thierry Malleret. The WEF publish a big load of resources as well, starting from the famous 2015-16 video about 2030's agenda. Essentially all such publishing depict a society when individuals own nothing and depend of very few hyper-giant conglomerate/zaibatsu/chaebol -alike private companies. A conspiracy is something done in the dark, definitively not publishing plan for anyone who want to read... Oh, BTW you can see trends everywhere to confirm those publications: start from the IT, how many do use someone else computers instead of their own iron? How many do have their emails locally, using them locally and relay on third parties just for IMAP and SMTP? How many leave their files on cloud "drives"? Keep going with cars: how many connected cars are on the market where the formal owner can't even repair hes/shes own vehicle? How many choose leasing instead of buying? How many rent a house and how are the trends of real estate market? In the past was normal in most countries owning a house, was normal owning a car that can be repaired by anyone, was normal have personal archives on personal archival systems first on paper and than with desktop computers and so on. Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents?
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > Now take a look at your own life: how much you depend on third parties services and how few such parties are respect of your own great-grandparents? My great-grandparents were very well off for their time, but I’d rather be a poor person (in Europe) today than swap places with them.