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You make way less money than your peers in California and everything is still as expensive. It's a financially horrible decision if you can work in the US. If y

You make way less money than your peers in California and everything is still as expensive. It's a financially horrible decision if you can work in the US. If you want to work in Europe though it's pretty good. I've worked at FAANG in US and UK and am currently going back to the US for non-financial reasons. I don't regret being here but I find London to be impossibly expensive to build a family in.

atmosx 5y ago
In the UK your family will be covered by the NHS. There is a welfare state. Don’t discount the value of the EU welfare state when it comes to raising a family.
fgh 5y ago
Reminds me of Martin Hairer commenting on what he is going to do with his $3m breakthrough prize-money: “We moved to London somewhat recently, three years ago, and we are still renting. So it might be time to buy a place to live." [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/10/uk-mathematician-martin-hairer-wins-richest-prize-in-academia-breakthrough https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/10/uk-mathemati...
phphphphp 5y ago
A few years ago FAANG salaries in London were pretty weak, but they’re much better now and even within the startup ecosystem — traditionally much lower than FAANG salaries here — £90k is a reasonable base expectation and £100k at a minimum for FAANG (>150k TC is normal). On £100k London is pretty affordable, so I’m curious, how much were you making in London and what do you consider to be a required salary to start a family here? London is very expensive but I’ve not heard the sentiment that FAANG salaries aren’t enough — would be helpful to learn more specifics of your view!
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  £150k is much, much less than non entry level FAANG engineers in the US are making.
  - volkk 5y ago
    £150k is ~$196k base. I don't really see how that's much much less? My friend is an L6 at 220k base (with a shitload of equity). Definitely within the range.
    - raphaelj 5y ago
      Workers in UK also work less than their US counterparts (paid holidays, parental leave, sick days ...) [1]. Would make more sense to compare these countries by hourly income, not yearly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - jen20 5y ago
        My (current) experience is that the London teams at my FAANG work no less than the US ones, and indeed often much later into the evenings to accommodate meetings. And everyone works fewer hours than those in finance.
    - throwaway81348 5y ago
      Base is not that important especially at L6. How much stock is your friend getting?
  - MrRiddle 5y ago
    150k after tax, pension and healthcare or before?
    - dbetteridge 5y ago
      UK/Australia/NZ tend to talk about Base salary (excludes bonus/health care/before tax). Is that different elsewhere? Edited to note this is "Base" not "Total" Salary
- tennis_sort 5y ago
  £100k London as a single person could definitely buy a flat somewhere. Maybe not a great area but it's doable. A house with a garden, kids, private school etc. 100k won't cut it unfortunately. For some reason I thought FAANGs in London were paid really well but seems like contracting or finance is the only way to get a reasonable income. I have a buddy who was working for a DeepMind and now works for Google (UK). His salary is £140k. Meanwhile day rates of £600 per day are pretty standard and pay the same for arguably less hassle.
  - Balero 5y ago
    I agree with everything you said aside from: "For some reason I thought FAANGs in London were paid really well but seems like contracting or finance is the only way to get a reasonable income." Even in London £100k is above a reasonable income for one person. It's not enough to buy a house and provide for a family on one income and still have no worries, but expecting that is unreasonable. It's really easy to get stuck in a bubble where we forget that six figures is crazy out of the ordinary for an average person. But as to your main point. Yeah finance and contracting really is the right way to go to get a high income. Though I think this might be changing with the contracting as there were some recent changes that make contracting less efficient tax wise, and could push high performers to either ask for more, or just move to being an employee.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
      It's really out of the ordinary when you're in the top 1% and can't afford a decent life - meanwhile lower middle class people who bought before QE (15 years ago) can afford a decent life. We shouldn't be lowering our "unreasonable" standards. If you're in the top 1% in income - you should have an complementary lifestyle. Not just be grateful that you're not in complete financial misery like everyone else your age.
      - jltsiren 5y ago
        You should pay more attention to household incomes than individual incomes, because housing is a per-household expense. Even if you are a high-income individual, you may still live in a mid-income household. In most large cities, being mid-income means you can afford to rent in most areas or buy in cheap areas.
pawelwentpawel 5y ago
I wonder, is moving from UK to US easy within a FAANG company? Is that something people do?
- politelemon 5y ago
  It really does depend on the company. Within large companies, there is often a structure that lets you do that. There will be internal job postings, you can apply, get interviewed, accepted, and then the hiring manager begins the process to transfer you over. Visas, processing fees, moving costs, things like that.
- phphphphp 5y ago
  The level you're working at matters too for visa reasons. If you can qualify for an L-1 visa, it's one of the easiest ways to get from the UK to the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-1_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-1_visa
- sjg007 5y ago
  Yes but it can tie your hands promotion wise.
  - pawelwentpawel 5y ago
    Why would it?
    - sjg007 5y ago
      L1's are based on functional role so IC specialized knowledge(L1A) vs manager (L1B) cross promotions are difficult.
pooya72 5y ago
It's interesting that you have lived in both and can do a fair comparison. There was a reddit thread a while back that compared US and UK salaries.[1] The consensus seemed to be, that if you compared the cost of living, you would need a considerably higher income in the US to have the same standard of living as the UK. One person said that 130K USD salary in the Bay Area would be equivalent to 50K GBP in London.[2] Another person said that 100K USD in the Bay Area is equivalent to 50 GBP in London. [3] It would be great to get your feedback on this. [1]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w... [2]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/gyx974p/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w... [3]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/gywud1h/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w...
- yunohn 5y ago
  > The consensus seemed to be, that if you compared the cost of living, you would need a considerably higher income in the US to have the same standard of living as the UK While this does have a partial truth to it, the examples are delusional. How can anyone compare 50k GBP to 130K USD? I have lived across the USA, EU, and Asia; but such comparisons are heavily personal situation dependant. The calculations would differ for single vs family as well.
  - jen20 5y ago
    I’ve also lived in the UK and US, though did not work for a FAANG in the UK. By the exchange rate right now, 50k GBP is around 65k USD. If you want to live within (say) an hour reach of an office, you’ll have a much easier time doing that in the London metro area with 50k than you will in the Bay Area with 130k. This is before you even consider taxes and healthcare. High quality groceries also substantially cheaper in the UK. A new wildcard is the price of energy, which looks to have gone up considerably in the UK since I left, though. Neither would be a comfortable position, and you wouldn’t be in danger of being able to buy a house absent other income. All in all though, if they were my fixed options, I’d take the money in London.

atmosx 5y ago

In the UK your family will be covered by the NHS. There is a welfare state. Don’t discount the value of the EU welfare state when it comes to raising a family.

fgh 5y ago

Reminds me of Martin Hairer commenting on what he is going to do with his $3m breakthrough prize-money: “We moved to London somewhat recently, three years ago, and we are still renting. So it might be time to buy a place to live." [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/10/uk-mathematician-martin-hairer-wins-richest-prize-in-academia-breakthrough https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/10/uk-mathemati...

phphphphp 5y ago

A few years ago FAANG salaries in London were pretty weak, but they’re much better now and even within the startup ecosystem — traditionally much lower than FAANG salaries here — £90k is a reasonable base expectation and £100k at a minimum for FAANG (>150k TC is normal). On £100k London is pretty affordable, so I’m curious, how much were you making in London and what do you consider to be a required salary to start a family here? London is very expensive but I’ve not heard the sentiment that FAANG salaries aren’t enough — would be helpful to learn more specifics of your view!

colinmhayes 5y ago
£150k is much, much less than non entry level FAANG engineers in the US are making.
- volkk 5y ago
  £150k is ~$196k base. I don't really see how that's much much less? My friend is an L6 at 220k base (with a shitload of equity). Definitely within the range.
  - raphaelj 5y ago
    Workers in UK also work less than their US counterparts (paid holidays, parental leave, sick days ...) [1]. Would make more sense to compare these countries by hourly income, not yearly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jen20 5y ago
      My (current) experience is that the London teams at my FAANG work no less than the US ones, and indeed often much later into the evenings to accommodate meetings. And everyone works fewer hours than those in finance.
  - throwaway81348 5y ago
    Base is not that important especially at L6. How much stock is your friend getting?
- MrRiddle 5y ago
  150k after tax, pension and healthcare or before?
  - dbetteridge 5y ago
    UK/Australia/NZ tend to talk about Base salary (excludes bonus/health care/before tax). Is that different elsewhere? Edited to note this is "Base" not "Total" Salary
tennis_sort 5y ago
£100k London as a single person could definitely buy a flat somewhere. Maybe not a great area but it's doable. A house with a garden, kids, private school etc. 100k won't cut it unfortunately. For some reason I thought FAANGs in London were paid really well but seems like contracting or finance is the only way to get a reasonable income. I have a buddy who was working for a DeepMind and now works for Google (UK). His salary is £140k. Meanwhile day rates of £600 per day are pretty standard and pay the same for arguably less hassle.
- Balero 5y ago
  I agree with everything you said aside from: "For some reason I thought FAANGs in London were paid really well but seems like contracting or finance is the only way to get a reasonable income." Even in London £100k is above a reasonable income for one person. It's not enough to buy a house and provide for a family on one income and still have no worries, but expecting that is unreasonable. It's really easy to get stuck in a bubble where we forget that six figures is crazy out of the ordinary for an average person. But as to your main point. Yeah finance and contracting really is the right way to go to get a high income. Though I think this might be changing with the contracting as there were some recent changes that make contracting less efficient tax wise, and could push high performers to either ask for more, or just move to being an employee.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
    It's really out of the ordinary when you're in the top 1% and can't afford a decent life - meanwhile lower middle class people who bought before QE (15 years ago) can afford a decent life. We shouldn't be lowering our "unreasonable" standards. If you're in the top 1% in income - you should have an complementary lifestyle. Not just be grateful that you're not in complete financial misery like everyone else your age.
    - jltsiren 5y ago
      You should pay more attention to household incomes than individual incomes, because housing is a per-household expense. Even if you are a high-income individual, you may still live in a mid-income household. In most large cities, being mid-income means you can afford to rent in most areas or buy in cheap areas.

pawelwentpawel 5y ago

I wonder, is moving from UK to US easy within a FAANG company? Is that something people do?

politelemon 5y ago
It really does depend on the company. Within large companies, there is often a structure that lets you do that. There will be internal job postings, you can apply, get interviewed, accepted, and then the hiring manager begins the process to transfer you over. Visas, processing fees, moving costs, things like that.
phphphphp 5y ago
The level you're working at matters too for visa reasons. If you can qualify for an L-1 visa, it's one of the easiest ways to get from the UK to the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-1_visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-1_visa
sjg007 5y ago
Yes but it can tie your hands promotion wise.
- pawelwentpawel 5y ago
  Why would it?
  - sjg007 5y ago
    L1's are based on functional role so IC specialized knowledge(L1A) vs manager (L1B) cross promotions are difficult.

pooya72 5y ago

It's interesting that you have lived in both and can do a fair comparison. There was a reddit thread a while back that compared US and UK salaries.[1] The consensus seemed to be, that if you compared the cost of living, you would need a considerably higher income in the US to have the same standard of living as the UK. One person said that 130K USD salary in the Bay Area would be equivalent to 50K GBP in London.[2] Another person said that 100K USD in the Bay Area is equivalent to 50 GBP in London. [3] It would be great to get your feedback on this. [1]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w... [2]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/gyx974p/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w... [3]:https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/what_would_be_the_equivalent_of_earning_us100k_in/gywud1h/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/nhe8v1/w...

yunohn 5y ago
> The consensus seemed to be, that if you compared the cost of living, you would need a considerably higher income in the US to have the same standard of living as the UK While this does have a partial truth to it, the examples are delusional. How can anyone compare 50k GBP to 130K USD? I have lived across the USA, EU, and Asia; but such comparisons are heavily personal situation dependant. The calculations would differ for single vs family as well.
- jen20 5y ago
  I’ve also lived in the UK and US, though did not work for a FAANG in the UK. By the exchange rate right now, 50k GBP is around 65k USD. If you want to live within (say) an hour reach of an office, you’ll have a much easier time doing that in the London metro area with 50k than you will in the Bay Area with 130k. This is before you even consider taxes and healthcare. High quality groceries also substantially cheaper in the UK. A new wildcard is the price of energy, which looks to have gone up considerably in the UK since I left, though. Neither would be a comfortable position, and you wouldn’t be in danger of being able to buy a house absent other income. All in all though, if they were my fixed options, I’d take the money in London.