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I heard him say on some podcast that he thinks there is a possibility for him to make real money on this, but I would say there isn't. Very few people care abou

I heard him say on some podcast that he thinks there is a possibility for him to make real money on this, but I would say there isn't. Very few people care about this, and almost none of that already small group will have heard of the app. Plus I can't even see how this simplifies anything, if you're posting to instagram it's surely simpler to skip the extra step and just use instagram's built in editor, even if you have to place the emojis yourself? Or you could just not post those photos. What's even the point of posting a photo of your child, with the face hidden? Seems very niche. Just post another photo. Casey Liss is a very anxious person, there is nothing wrong with that but if you make apps for people like yourself, it's an advantage to be more mainstream!

eddieroger 5y ago
Heard the same, thought the same. Casey succumbed to the struggle I find myself dealing with all the time - he found a problem with a technological solve and solved it with technology, which is only something other technologists do or want. Like you said, Instagram has a facility to already put stickers on images for people who wish to censor their pics. If they're not using Instagram, maybe the other program can do the same, if they user even cares at all. How do you convince someone with an existing workflow to change? "Why do I need another app," they will ask you. I wish him luck and applaud the nerve to go it alone in the tech world, but I'm not sure this is a diamond waiting to be found.
- samhw 5y ago
  As one of our VCs once wisely said to us: "The hardest thing is to get a consumer to install a new app. Deliver your solution any way other than its own app."
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Yes and no; there are a few handfuls of apps that Made It in that they are only viable as apps, the ones that people will cycle through and open up multiple times a day. It is really hard to get to that point though. I mean the last ones I can think of that people installed were TikTok (similar appeal as Instagram, maybe Snapchat) and FaceApp (short lived gimmick).
    - reaperducer 5y ago
      I think the app gold rush is over. We've passed the time when every company "needs" an app. Even marketing managers can look at their phones and realize, "Why do I have all of these apps? I don't even know what half of these things are for anymore?" I recently moved, and my new building has separate apps for: Package notifications, dry cleaning pick up/drop off, paying rent, the speakers in the ceilings, building bulletin board, reserving a common space, reserving the freight elevators, maintenance requests, pet care service, doorman notifications, self-parking, valet parking, and probably a bunch more that I've forgotten because I'd rather let my wife deal with that stuff than overwhelm myself with apps. And that's just the building. Nevermind grocery delivery, each individual utility, food delivery, restaurants, and on and on and on. My wife is a big app person. Hates using mobile web sites. She has at least 200 apps on her phone, all obsessively organized in tiny folders. But even she has started using the web versions of things, just because having so many apps has finally become harder than clicking a bookmark in Safari.
      - rchaud 5y ago
        Just curious, can your wife tell the difference between a native mobile app and an app that's mostly a webview?
        freedomben 5y ago
        Not GP, but no mine can't. She replaced the facebook app with Slim Social (which is basically FB in a web view) and barely noticed a difference between native and web view.
      - freedomben 5y ago
        I agree. I hesitate to use myself as a data point because I'm very sensitive to privacy and security issues (and thus often refuse to use apps that don't have a web version), but it seems like there are a lot more web options than there used to be. Apps definitely have a place for some use cases, but for most they just have so many downsides, especially invasive privacy violations. I think of running an app as similar to running some unknown/close source binary as root on my machine. Why give an app access to a whole bunch of APIs that can be used to mine me for data when it isn't needed? Cross platform usability is also a big thing. Any apps that require typing are much better done on a laptop or desktop with a keyboard. Why should I be forced to use my tiny phone screen and super awkward mobile keyboard to fill out a form when I have a perfectly good laptop right next to me? Why should I have to run a specific operating system (apple or android) in order to be able to fill out the form? Few people I know still get excited about apps. The curiosity and fascination is largely over. Unless there's a compelling reason, people don't want to install "another app"
  - rchaud 5y ago
    That doesn't sound like it's generalizable. You may as well say, "the hardest thing is to get a consumer to sign up for yet another service". And it is hard. But that is precisely how a new consumer app would get traction. It's not like Buzzfeed where no login is required, and the only thing that matters is ad impressions.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      The point is if you can avoid making an app, that's better. Obviously if it has to be an app, then make an app.
      - rchaud 5y ago
        That too doesn't sound right. Every consumer app I use begs me to use their dedicated native app on mobile. Even though I'm a signed up user on the web site. The only reason they do this is because app-level surveillance and telemetry is unblockable, whereas the web allows me to block what I want.
        Grustaf 5y ago
        Of course it's better for them if the CAN make you install it. Just like it's better for a company if they can convince you to sign up for something, or at least give them your email. But the point is that if you can expose your clients to your service without all that, then you should avoid introducing the hurdle, you don't want to scare anyone off. So: make it possible to use the service without any hurdles, but _try_ to get them to agree to as much as possible.
  - vincentmarle 5y ago
    I would take "VC advice" with a big grain of salt...
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - nradov 5y ago
    That doesn't seem so wise. Consumers install a lot of apps. On the Google Play store, even some obscure apps have huge download numbers.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
prea 5y ago
> What's even the point of posting a photo of your child, with the face hidden? Seems very niche. Might be a cultural US thing, but this is something my wife does a lot and I see a lot of people doing. It's one of those things that might not make sense if you don't have kids.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I have kids, and don't mind posting their photos. But if I did, why post at all? It just seems weird. "Here's my son, minus the face. Oh he's so cute!"
  - mysterydip 5y ago
    I have a friend who does this for her foster kid(s).
    - Nathanael_M 5y ago
      My in-laws foster and this is the first use case I thought of. It’s sad to take a big family photo and either not be able to share it, or have to take a duplicate without the foster child.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Why do you need to do that?
        ajbourg 5y ago
        Speaking as a foster parent: my agency like many have rules against posting foster kids to social media. Usually intended to help protect kid's privacy. I think the motivation comes from a handful of places, protecting kids from being exploited for likes, keeping kids privacy, but a big one in foster circles is so that people don't know you're a foster kid unless you say so. Most adults in the system take great care to not acknowledge kids if they run into them in public to avoid situations where kids have to explain to their friends, "Who is that?" and then having an awkward situation where they have to say something like, "That's my caseworker/therapist/whatever".
scarface74 5y ago
There is another reason that he mentioned. If podcasting doesn’t work out, he can show that he still has up to date iOS development skills.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Ok, but he also mentioned it took him 6 months to make it, so those skills might not be quite up to date...
  - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
    Personal attacks are a bad look. This sort of nitpicky comment is exactly why people stress about putting stuff on the Internet.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      It's not an attack, it's just a statement. If one purpose is to appear employable, he should not mention that it took him 6 months to write it because that is just too long.
      - Pyramus 5y ago
        It's one thing to "write an app" and something else completely to bring it to a standard consumable by lay users. Having published and maintained an app that is in active use by even a couple hundred users gives you an advantage in employability and quite a big one at that. Your post makes it seem like you have neither published an app yourself nor hired single devs who have, and it's easy to not appreciate.
        Grustaf 5y ago
        I've been a professional iOS developer for a decade. 6 months is way too long for that app. My very first app took 10 weeks, including learning to program, and it was more complex than MaskerAid. And better looking, was even featured in the app store in a few countries.
_fat_santa 5y ago
You also have to consider the modal, a one time 99 cent purchase. As much as a despise all those apps with subscriptions, it's the only way for an app like this to bring in the dough. That is not so say what the developer here did was wrong, I commend him for having the integrity to not reach for a "99cents/month" subscription, but that is unfortunately where all the money is unless you have a high volume app.
eckza 5y ago
Personally, I've been waiting for an app like this for a long time. I don't use social media, but I have a group chat with a handful of close friends. Sometimes, I like to insert emojis into a photo for comedic effect. Now I can do this without fighting with iOS's horrible Markup editor. (Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this isn't part of iOS already.)
- vxNsr 5y ago
  But it’s relatively easy to use iOS’s markup editor. The whole time he was explaining this app all I could think was… it’s so much easier to just use the markup editor. If you’re sharing to WhatsApp… just use their editor, it allows adding stickers and emojis natively, it doesn’t auto detect faces… but is that strictly necessary? For double points, if you don’t wanna share on WhatsApp you can still use their editor and just send it to yourself. Now you are still only using one app, and the new photo is saved automatically to your camera roll.
  - perardi 5y ago
    I kind of hate-listen to ATP at this point, as the only one who lives in the real world is Siracusa… …but this is actually not easy to do via the iOS markup editor. It defaults to a pencil tool that draws way too fine of a line to mask a face without a loooot of scribbling, and adding a shape is a lot of taps. And text, forget about it, that's a pain in the default iOS editor. (Instagram: way better at this.) This is a weird niche of a tool—it's for people who are posting photos to the Instagram timeline where you can't use the built-in stickers feature, or sending a lot of photos via Messages. But for this tiny niche: sure, useful.
    - greedo 5y ago
      Siracusa is great to listen to since he can make very complex subjects seem simple. His writing with Ars was similar. I listen to his other podcast and wish there was a way to mute his co-host so I only heard John. Despite the rambling, incoherent interruptions from said co-host, I still listen to the podcast because the value in listening to Siracusa outweighs the pain from MM.
brundolf 5y ago
I know lots of pseudonymous people on Twitter who have large enough followings that they don't want to share their face or real name, and I've seen them do this sort of thing
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  I think the issue is that adding stickers to images is second nature to anyone who uses Instagram.
  - kemayo 5y ago
    This is a little strange to hear, since it's genuinely not possible (as far as I can tell) in the main part of the app. Stories, yes, but not in the feed. It's as if people use these things in wildly divergent ways, I guess.
    - hombre_fatal 5y ago
      Good point, I forgot that’s only for stories. The iOS markup editor isn’t nearly as friendly for slapping on emojis and resizing them with two fingers. That said there seem to be various photo editing apps that do make it easier that OP app is competing with.
      - kemayo 5y ago
        I did actually skim through other apps that've been linked in the thread, and I didn't see one that seemed like a direct competitor with the combination of emoji + automatic face detection. Granted, this could be me defining the market too narrowly, and many people might get by without one of these just fine. (My own App Store searching turned up one called Face Blur which seemed to have emoji as an option... as a subscription, which seems like a non-starter.)
gnicholas 5y ago
I recently saw a friend post photos like this on FB. She was visiting her sister and blocked the sister's kids' faces. She didn't block the faces of her own kids, who are much older. Made sense to me! I don't know how often I'd use the app, but I've just downloaded it. I'm sure my kids would have fun playing with it, regardless!
earthboundkid 5y ago
I said on Twitter that there is a very obvious revenue strategy here. Pivot from tots to thots. Thots need to post censored versions of their photos on Instagram as the top of their Only Fans funnel. It’s a business expense for them. Seed it to some influencers but ask them to leave on the watermarks and then wait for other cam girls to buy it because all their friends are using it.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Brilliant! Then he could also bring back the old name.
- thenayr 5y ago
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vohu43 5y ago
Guess you have no idea with what apps you can make money :) If you have a decent app and good pricing you can convert something between 1-5% of downloads to paying customers. With his audience and reach he can easily make real money. Probably not life changing, but still a few hundred bucks each month.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  A few hundred bucks a month is for all intents and purposes "nothing". It's a rounding error in terms of the time he spent on it.
- deleted 5y ago
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- xnyan 5y ago
  He said on a podcast that he spent "6 months" developing it. I very much doubt that was 6 months of full-time work, but even if that was only 10 hours a week, and even if the "cost" was let's say $100 (probably much more) an hour, that's around $25k or 7 straight years of $300 a month (that never goes down for 7 years, aka impossible) to recoup his investment. That's an absolute low end, I think you could easily argue the cost was 4x that, which means it would take 28 years of sales that never dip to break even. There's no possible way he could make anything besides less-than-nothing level money at $300 a month or anything close to that amount. As he explained on his podcast, this project was designed to solve his own problem. The problem with apps designed to solve your own problem is that very often, your problem is not 1) shared by others willing to pay or 2) you don't solve the problem in the same way others want to solve a problem.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    Just for reference, $25K spent in time and then being able to talk intelligently about modern iOS development on a podcast that generates $16K an episode seems like a good investment. And “time isn’t money”. It wasn’t like the time he spent developing it would have been spent working on something else.

eddieroger 5y ago

Heard the same, thought the same. Casey succumbed to the struggle I find myself dealing with all the time - he found a problem with a technological solve and solved it with technology, which is only something other technologists do or want. Like you said, Instagram has a facility to already put stickers on images for people who wish to censor their pics. If they're not using Instagram, maybe the other program can do the same, if they user even cares at all. How do you convince someone with an existing workflow to change? "Why do I need another app," they will ask you. I wish him luck and applaud the nerve to go it alone in the tech world, but I'm not sure this is a diamond waiting to be found.

samhw 5y ago
As one of our VCs once wisely said to us: "The hardest thing is to get a consumer to install a new app. Deliver your solution any way other than its own app."
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Yes and no; there are a few handfuls of apps that Made It in that they are only viable as apps, the ones that people will cycle through and open up multiple times a day. It is really hard to get to that point though. I mean the last ones I can think of that people installed were TikTok (similar appeal as Instagram, maybe Snapchat) and FaceApp (short lived gimmick).
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    I think the app gold rush is over. We've passed the time when every company "needs" an app. Even marketing managers can look at their phones and realize, "Why do I have all of these apps? I don't even know what half of these things are for anymore?" I recently moved, and my new building has separate apps for: Package notifications, dry cleaning pick up/drop off, paying rent, the speakers in the ceilings, building bulletin board, reserving a common space, reserving the freight elevators, maintenance requests, pet care service, doorman notifications, self-parking, valet parking, and probably a bunch more that I've forgotten because I'd rather let my wife deal with that stuff than overwhelm myself with apps. And that's just the building. Nevermind grocery delivery, each individual utility, food delivery, restaurants, and on and on and on. My wife is a big app person. Hates using mobile web sites. She has at least 200 apps on her phone, all obsessively organized in tiny folders. But even she has started using the web versions of things, just because having so many apps has finally become harder than clicking a bookmark in Safari.
    - rchaud 5y ago
      Just curious, can your wife tell the difference between a native mobile app and an app that's mostly a webview?
      - freedomben 5y ago
        Not GP, but no mine can't. She replaced the facebook app with Slim Social (which is basically FB in a web view) and barely noticed a difference between native and web view.
    - freedomben 5y ago
      I agree. I hesitate to use myself as a data point because I'm very sensitive to privacy and security issues (and thus often refuse to use apps that don't have a web version), but it seems like there are a lot more web options than there used to be. Apps definitely have a place for some use cases, but for most they just have so many downsides, especially invasive privacy violations. I think of running an app as similar to running some unknown/close source binary as root on my machine. Why give an app access to a whole bunch of APIs that can be used to mine me for data when it isn't needed? Cross platform usability is also a big thing. Any apps that require typing are much better done on a laptop or desktop with a keyboard. Why should I be forced to use my tiny phone screen and super awkward mobile keyboard to fill out a form when I have a perfectly good laptop right next to me? Why should I have to run a specific operating system (apple or android) in order to be able to fill out the form? Few people I know still get excited about apps. The curiosity and fascination is largely over. Unless there's a compelling reason, people don't want to install "another app"
- rchaud 5y ago
  That doesn't sound like it's generalizable. You may as well say, "the hardest thing is to get a consumer to sign up for yet another service". And it is hard. But that is precisely how a new consumer app would get traction. It's not like Buzzfeed where no login is required, and the only thing that matters is ad impressions.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    The point is if you can avoid making an app, that's better. Obviously if it has to be an app, then make an app.
    - rchaud 5y ago
      That too doesn't sound right. Every consumer app I use begs me to use their dedicated native app on mobile. Even though I'm a signed up user on the web site. The only reason they do this is because app-level surveillance and telemetry is unblockable, whereas the web allows me to block what I want.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Of course it's better for them if the CAN make you install it. Just like it's better for a company if they can convince you to sign up for something, or at least give them your email. But the point is that if you can expose your clients to your service without all that, then you should avoid introducing the hurdle, you don't want to scare anyone off. So: make it possible to use the service without any hurdles, but _try_ to get them to agree to as much as possible.
- vincentmarle 5y ago
  I would take "VC advice" with a big grain of salt...
- deleted 5y ago
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- nradov 5y ago
  That doesn't seem so wise. Consumers install a lot of apps. On the Google Play store, even some obscure apps have huge download numbers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

prea 5y ago

> What's even the point of posting a photo of your child, with the face hidden? Seems very niche. Might be a cultural US thing, but this is something my wife does a lot and I see a lot of people doing. It's one of those things that might not make sense if you don't have kids.

Grustaf 5y ago
I have kids, and don't mind posting their photos. But if I did, why post at all? It just seems weird. "Here's my son, minus the face. Oh he's so cute!"
- mysterydip 5y ago
  I have a friend who does this for her foster kid(s).
  - Nathanael_M 5y ago
    My in-laws foster and this is the first use case I thought of. It’s sad to take a big family photo and either not be able to share it, or have to take a duplicate without the foster child.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Why do you need to do that?
      - ajbourg 5y ago
        Speaking as a foster parent: my agency like many have rules against posting foster kids to social media. Usually intended to help protect kid's privacy. I think the motivation comes from a handful of places, protecting kids from being exploited for likes, keeping kids privacy, but a big one in foster circles is so that people don't know you're a foster kid unless you say so. Most adults in the system take great care to not acknowledge kids if they run into them in public to avoid situations where kids have to explain to their friends, "Who is that?" and then having an awkward situation where they have to say something like, "That's my caseworker/therapist/whatever".

scarface74 5y ago

There is another reason that he mentioned. If podcasting doesn’t work out, he can show that he still has up to date iOS development skills.

Grustaf 5y ago
Ok, but he also mentioned it took him 6 months to make it, so those skills might not be quite up to date...
- mattgreenrocks 5y ago
  Personal attacks are a bad look. This sort of nitpicky comment is exactly why people stress about putting stuff on the Internet.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    It's not an attack, it's just a statement. If one purpose is to appear employable, he should not mention that it took him 6 months to write it because that is just too long.
    - Pyramus 5y ago
      It's one thing to "write an app" and something else completely to bring it to a standard consumable by lay users. Having published and maintained an app that is in active use by even a couple hundred users gives you an advantage in employability and quite a big one at that. Your post makes it seem like you have neither published an app yourself nor hired single devs who have, and it's easy to not appreciate.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        I've been a professional iOS developer for a decade. 6 months is way too long for that app. My very first app took 10 weeks, including learning to program, and it was more complex than MaskerAid. And better looking, was even featured in the app store in a few countries.

_fat_santa 5y ago

You also have to consider the modal, a one time 99 cent purchase. As much as a despise all those apps with subscriptions, it's the only way for an app like this to bring in the dough. That is not so say what the developer here did was wrong, I commend him for having the integrity to not reach for a "99cents/month" subscription, but that is unfortunately where all the money is unless you have a high volume app.

eckza 5y ago

Personally, I've been waiting for an app like this for a long time. I don't use social media, but I have a group chat with a handful of close friends. Sometimes, I like to insert emojis into a photo for comedic effect. Now I can do this without fighting with iOS's horrible Markup editor. (Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this isn't part of iOS already.)

vxNsr 5y ago
But it’s relatively easy to use iOS’s markup editor. The whole time he was explaining this app all I could think was… it’s so much easier to just use the markup editor. If you’re sharing to WhatsApp… just use their editor, it allows adding stickers and emojis natively, it doesn’t auto detect faces… but is that strictly necessary? For double points, if you don’t wanna share on WhatsApp you can still use their editor and just send it to yourself. Now you are still only using one app, and the new photo is saved automatically to your camera roll.
- perardi 5y ago
  I kind of hate-listen to ATP at this point, as the only one who lives in the real world is Siracusa… …but this is actually not easy to do via the iOS markup editor. It defaults to a pencil tool that draws way too fine of a line to mask a face without a loooot of scribbling, and adding a shape is a lot of taps. And text, forget about it, that's a pain in the default iOS editor. (Instagram: way better at this.) This is a weird niche of a tool—it's for people who are posting photos to the Instagram timeline where you can't use the built-in stickers feature, or sending a lot of photos via Messages. But for this tiny niche: sure, useful.
  - greedo 5y ago
    Siracusa is great to listen to since he can make very complex subjects seem simple. His writing with Ars was similar. I listen to his other podcast and wish there was a way to mute his co-host so I only heard John. Despite the rambling, incoherent interruptions from said co-host, I still listen to the podcast because the value in listening to Siracusa outweighs the pain from MM.

brundolf 5y ago

I know lots of pseudonymous people on Twitter who have large enough followings that they don't want to share their face or real name, and I've seen them do this sort of thing

hombre_fatal 5y ago
I think the issue is that adding stickers to images is second nature to anyone who uses Instagram.
- kemayo 5y ago
  This is a little strange to hear, since it's genuinely not possible (as far as I can tell) in the main part of the app. Stories, yes, but not in the feed. It's as if people use these things in wildly divergent ways, I guess.
  - hombre_fatal 5y ago
    Good point, I forgot that’s only for stories. The iOS markup editor isn’t nearly as friendly for slapping on emojis and resizing them with two fingers. That said there seem to be various photo editing apps that do make it easier that OP app is competing with.
    - kemayo 5y ago
      I did actually skim through other apps that've been linked in the thread, and I didn't see one that seemed like a direct competitor with the combination of emoji + automatic face detection. Granted, this could be me defining the market too narrowly, and many people might get by without one of these just fine. (My own App Store searching turned up one called Face Blur which seemed to have emoji as an option... as a subscription, which seems like a non-starter.)

gnicholas 5y ago

I recently saw a friend post photos like this on FB. She was visiting her sister and blocked the sister's kids' faces. She didn't block the faces of her own kids, who are much older. Made sense to me! I don't know how often I'd use the app, but I've just downloaded it. I'm sure my kids would have fun playing with it, regardless!

earthboundkid 5y ago

I said on Twitter that there is a very obvious revenue strategy here. Pivot from tots to thots. Thots need to post censored versions of their photos on Instagram as the top of their Only Fans funnel. It’s a business expense for them. Seed it to some influencers but ask them to leave on the watermarks and then wait for other cam girls to buy it because all their friends are using it.

Grustaf 5y ago
Brilliant! Then he could also bring back the old name.
thenayr 5y ago

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vohu43 5y ago

Guess you have no idea with what apps you can make money :) If you have a decent app and good pricing you can convert something between 1-5% of downloads to paying customers. With his audience and reach he can easily make real money. Probably not life changing, but still a few hundred bucks each month.

Grustaf 5y ago
A few hundred bucks a month is for all intents and purposes "nothing". It's a rounding error in terms of the time he spent on it.
deleted 5y ago
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xnyan 5y ago
He said on a podcast that he spent "6 months" developing it. I very much doubt that was 6 months of full-time work, but even if that was only 10 hours a week, and even if the "cost" was let's say $100 (probably much more) an hour, that's around $25k or 7 straight years of $300 a month (that never goes down for 7 years, aka impossible) to recoup his investment. That's an absolute low end, I think you could easily argue the cost was 4x that, which means it would take 28 years of sales that never dip to break even. There's no possible way he could make anything besides less-than-nothing level money at $300 a month or anything close to that amount. As he explained on his podcast, this project was designed to solve his own problem. The problem with apps designed to solve your own problem is that very often, your problem is not 1) shared by others willing to pay or 2) you don't solve the problem in the same way others want to solve a problem.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Just for reference, $25K spent in time and then being able to talk intelligently about modern iOS development on a podcast that generates $16K an episode seems like a good investment. And “time isn’t money”. It wasn’t like the time he spent developing it would have been spent working on something else.