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Fabrice Bellard's BPG image format uses H.265's keyframe compressor: https://bellard.org/bpg/ https://bellard.org/bpg/ Here is a side-by-side visual comparison

Fabrice Bellard's BPG image format uses H.265's keyframe compressor: https://bellard.org/bpg/ https://bellard.org/bpg/ Here is a side-by-side visual comparison: http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bugfixes/#ballet-exercise&jpg=s&bpg=s http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bugfixes/#ballet-exerci... Amazing. I ported his BPG decoder to Android ARM for a pornographic app. See my comment history for details. It reduced data transfer by more than 60%.

aikinai 5y ago
Isn’t that exactly what HEIC is?
- innocenat 5y ago
  It looks like BGP actually predates HEIC. HEIC technical document finalise in 2015. The GitHub mirror of BGP has history back to 2014.
  - thrdbndndn 5y ago
    I'm not saying which one is earlier as I have no idea, but comparing these two dates doesn't seem to be a good way. Implementation of HEIC existed before its documentation finalized.
- localhost 5y ago
  It seems that way - I read this [1] which does a high level comparison of the technologies. It does seem like BPG is patent encumbered by the underlying H265 algorithms (aka HEVC) [2] [1] https://www.zyxtech.org/2019/06/13/what-is-heic-heif-plus-a-brief-timeline-of-image-formats-featuring-jpeg-gif-png-webp-bpg/ https://www.zyxtech.org/2019/06/13/what-is-heic-heif-plus-a-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding
- pornel 5y ago
  HEIC is this plus a kitchen sink of features for digital camera rolls, which aren't useful on the web, all wrapped in a ton of legacy ISO BMFF complexity reaching as far as Classic Mac Quicktime. BPG structure is much more minimal and pragmatic. However, BPG is unnecessary nowadays. Modern browsers support AVIF, which is HEIF+AV1, so basically HEIC with the painfully patented bit swapped for a freely licensed one.
  - madars 5y ago
    Really hopeful for AVIF but you can't use it on iOS https://caniuse.com/?search=avif https://caniuse.com/?search=avif :(
high_priest 5y ago
Bro. Why are you promoting so much an app that barely does anything (opens a series of images from a hosting), as 'pornographic application that change your life'?
- tmp65535 5y ago
  This account exists ONLY to talk about that app. Every one of my projects is isolated from the others by using different accounts, etc. We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. This app uses an unusual image codec (BPG) which illustrates that if you control the encoder and decoder, you can choose a format with no mainstream support. I think it is a good point.
  - antasvara 5y ago
    Do you run into issues being seen as a shill for your app? I ask this in good faith, because I think a decent chunk of HN readers check a person's post history when they recommend something. I get the idea of compartmentalizing your online identity, but I imagine that comes at a cost in some instances.
    - tmp65535 5y ago
      Sure. But the benefits of privacy and compartmentalization outweigh the costs.
  - criddell 5y ago
    > We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. I disagree and I believe the HN guidelines do as well: > Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to.
    - tmp65535 5y ago
      We may differ in our interpretation of the phrase "sensitive information". It used to be that most computer programmers ("hackers") understood the value of privacy.
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
They did the same for AV1, image size is 50% of HEIC (25% of JPEG) due to increases in coding efficiency.
pbronez 5y ago
Wow that comparison is really cool. Looking at BPG vs original, you can see some loss of fine detail as the file size cranks down, but you can get an excellent reproduction with an order of magnitude less storage. Seems like BPG is smoothing the image a bit. For example, the space shuttle image has film grain in the sky, but BPG smooths this away. Significantly better than JPEG at small file sizes... BPG eliminates the obvious color banding and does a much better job preserving detail.
- aembleton 5y ago
  If you set BPG to a large file size, you still get some of the noise in the sky of the Endeavor photo. But this is 1/20 the size of the original image which is incredible.
torginus 5y ago
What's the patent status? As far as I know, H265 is patent encumbered(and not actually supported on a large chunk of Android devices for the same reason) , so including this somewhere might invite legal trouble.
- tmp65535 5y ago
  You are correct, there may be licensing issue.
- nijave 5y ago
  I was under the impression most implementations rely on hardware support. Hardware vendors pay the royalties then software just hands it off. Afaik that's how it works in most browsers and many modern CPU/GPUs support hardware decoding h265
fallat 5y ago
I cannot get over how much of a CompSci God Fabrice is. What a person!
silisili 5y ago
That's amazing, thanks for sharing. Going in rather uninformed, I expected it to 'look better' by typical smoothing tricks and whatnot...but no. It has -tons- more detail...looking at little things like wrinkles in the socks and shirt and whatnot. Impressive.
dlp211 5y ago
This was fascinating. I changed to JPEG large vs BPG small and they are almost indistinguishable. JPEG small vs BPG small wasn't even close (JPEG being much worst).
Markoff 5y ago
Why would anyone use such exotic unsupported format when there is WebP, AVIF or JPEG XL, which are all much more supported and better? It's shame they are not natively supported by most of the camera Android apps.
- tmp65535 5y ago
  In my case, the year was 2017. Early 2017. How many of those formats were available on all Android phones in 2017? Answer: None.
MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago
It does look really good for detailed areas, but when you look at the abandoned building pic BPG can never quite get the smooth sky gradient right, even at Large size.

aikinai 5y ago

Isn’t that exactly what HEIC is?

innocenat 5y ago
It looks like BGP actually predates HEIC. HEIC technical document finalise in 2015. The GitHub mirror of BGP has history back to 2014.
- thrdbndndn 5y ago
  I'm not saying which one is earlier as I have no idea, but comparing these two dates doesn't seem to be a good way. Implementation of HEIC existed before its documentation finalized.
localhost 5y ago
It seems that way - I read this [1] which does a high level comparison of the technologies. It does seem like BPG is patent encumbered by the underlying H265 algorithms (aka HEVC) [2] [1] https://www.zyxtech.org/2019/06/13/what-is-heic-heif-plus-a-brief-timeline-of-image-formats-featuring-jpeg-gif-png-webp-bpg/ https://www.zyxtech.org/2019/06/13/what-is-heic-heif-plus-a-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding
pornel 5y ago
HEIC is this plus a kitchen sink of features for digital camera rolls, which aren't useful on the web, all wrapped in a ton of legacy ISO BMFF complexity reaching as far as Classic Mac Quicktime. BPG structure is much more minimal and pragmatic. However, BPG is unnecessary nowadays. Modern browsers support AVIF, which is HEIF+AV1, so basically HEIC with the painfully patented bit swapped for a freely licensed one.
- madars 5y ago
  Really hopeful for AVIF but you can't use it on iOS https://caniuse.com/?search=avif https://caniuse.com/?search=avif :(

high_priest 5y ago

Bro. Why are you promoting so much an app that barely does anything (opens a series of images from a hosting), as 'pornographic application that change your life'?

tmp65535 5y ago
This account exists ONLY to talk about that app. Every one of my projects is isolated from the others by using different accounts, etc. We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. This app uses an unusual image codec (BPG) which illustrates that if you control the encoder and decoder, you can choose a format with no mainstream support. I think it is a good point.
- antasvara 5y ago
  Do you run into issues being seen as a shill for your app? I ask this in good faith, because I think a decent chunk of HN readers check a person's post history when they recommend something. I get the idea of compartmentalizing your online identity, but I imagine that comes at a cost in some instances.
  - tmp65535 5y ago
    Sure. But the benefits of privacy and compartmentalization outweigh the costs.
- criddell 5y ago
  > We should all be meticulous about compartmentalizing our online identity. I disagree and I believe the HN guidelines do as well: > Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to.
  - tmp65535 5y ago
    We may differ in our interpretation of the phrase "sensitive information". It used to be that most computer programmers ("hackers") understood the value of privacy.

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

They did the same for AV1, image size is 50% of HEIC (25% of JPEG) due to increases in coding efficiency.

pbronez 5y ago

Wow that comparison is really cool. Looking at BPG vs original, you can see some loss of fine detail as the file size cranks down, but you can get an excellent reproduction with an order of magnitude less storage. Seems like BPG is smoothing the image a bit. For example, the space shuttle image has film grain in the sky, but BPG smooths this away. Significantly better than JPEG at small file sizes... BPG eliminates the obvious color banding and does a much better job preserving detail.

aembleton 5y ago
If you set BPG to a large file size, you still get some of the noise in the sky of the Endeavor photo. But this is 1/20 the size of the original image which is incredible.

torginus 5y ago

What's the patent status? As far as I know, H265 is patent encumbered(and not actually supported on a large chunk of Android devices for the same reason) , so including this somewhere might invite legal trouble.

tmp65535 5y ago
You are correct, there may be licensing issue.
nijave 5y ago
I was under the impression most implementations rely on hardware support. Hardware vendors pay the royalties then software just hands it off. Afaik that's how it works in most browsers and many modern CPU/GPUs support hardware decoding h265

fallat 5y ago

I cannot get over how much of a CompSci God Fabrice is. What a person!

silisili 5y ago

That's amazing, thanks for sharing. Going in rather uninformed, I expected it to 'look better' by typical smoothing tricks and whatnot...but no. It has -tons- more detail...looking at little things like wrinkles in the socks and shirt and whatnot. Impressive.

dlp211 5y ago

This was fascinating. I changed to JPEG large vs BPG small and they are almost indistinguishable. JPEG small vs BPG small wasn't even close (JPEG being much worst).

Markoff 5y ago

Why would anyone use such exotic unsupported format when there is WebP, AVIF or JPEG XL, which are all much more supported and better? It's shame they are not natively supported by most of the camera Android apps.

tmp65535 5y ago
In my case, the year was 2017. Early 2017. How many of those formats were available on all Android phones in 2017? Answer: None.

MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago

It does look really good for detailed areas, but when you look at the abandoned building pic BPG can never quite get the smooth sky gradient right, even at Large size.