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> and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Netherlands is planning to get rid off gas for a while. I've attended a presentation by the city. They planne

• kkfx 5y ago
  You (and many others) forget a thing: gas is not only used to heat... It's used in various industrial sectors. Did you know why there is a fertilizer crisis in agriculture? Because modern fertilizers are made from gas, via ammonia. Oh, of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough because the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food production is a big industrial business, not something little player can run and compete. So we do not have enough natural and NON-polluting fertilizers and we do not have enough synthetic fertilizers either. Not only: many industrial process need heat, they might probably switch to electricity but not "today" and even doing so the price of the output will be veeeery higher than today not counting the fact that actually we do not know how to satisfy such eventual hyper-big electricity demand. If tomorrow all cars became e.v. in a snap we simply can't recharge them. Not only: we can't make metals for the green revolutions without fossils. etc etc etc. Long story short: I'm a LEFT-wing environmentalist and I see the Green New Deal as green as "dollar green" or "stereotypical toxic waste green", certainly not environment natural grass green. Oh, and do consider a thing: so far skyrocketed prices from gas, oil etc is NOT due to the Russians who keep selling as usual (and sanctions avoid touching those aspects) BUT due to future market speculations witch is a western and neoliberal thing, as "green" as the nazi, the same nazi they have armed and trained in Ukraine actually, not much differently on the original nazi in Germany, created and financed by the big & powerful of their time, locals AND from other countries included USA and UK wealthy and gov. (remember IBM and Standard Oil just to name two well known?)... Smelling rodent for myself I've choose to live a big city for a mounting area (a bit remote, BUT well served for various aspects, from internet connections to food and services) building a modern insulated house, with a small p.v. systems etc at that time was not cheap but now start to pay back not much by nature but by artificially skyrocket price of anything. And that's not good ALSO for me because yes, these days I'm well served by such investments but that's for artificial reasons. I'm still be "less wealthy" than what I could due to the new deal. Only very few keep profiting toward 2030 agenda where "no one [but neoliberals élite] will own nothing"...
  • krageon 5y ago
    > of course we have classic manure, but unfortunately if not enough The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop. It's been exporting it for years, to whoever will take it. > the Green New Deal want to push a meat-less diet not because of pollution but because doing so means that food production is a big industrial business, not something little player can run and compete I'm afraid you entirely lost me here. This (meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication.
    • kkfx 5y ago
      > The Netherlands has an enormous oversupply of poop I'm talking about animal manure, not human's one... That last can't be used in agriculture because too many meds and diseases can pass along... The NL btw have a population density that can't really nourish it's resident without importing significant amount of foods. That's a classic problem, but in an age of scarcity it count much more than in an age of abundance... > meat can be done profitably at a smaller scale than plant production) is quite simply a fabrication Meat can be done at small scale, no matter the profit. You can easy raise chickens in your own backyard, nourishing them with some insects and various food waste if you can't have a bit of grains. They reproduce autonomously for almost the entire year and in 4-5-6 month you can slaughter them at home. That means you can at a hyper-small scale source proteins to keep yourself alive if needed. At a slightly bigger scale a S.E. can easily live selling eggs and meat. At a slightly bigger scale you can have goats and sheep, from a region of the earth to another it's just change the size of land needed to nourish a flock, goats and sheep live normally in rural central Asia, in place almost desertic for a hyper-large part of the year, they also live in Scandinavia and similarly in various part of Africa. At a slightly bigger scale came pigs and cows. On contrary to nourish people with crackers made from grains and dried insects as the Green New Deal want you need factories. You need automated systems to dry insects (alive, of course) grind them into flour, cut this flour with the corn flour, add flavor enhancers and various other synthetic chemical compounds, package everything etc. That can't be done at a small scale. That's why Green New Deal want them: living on such "food" demand living on industry, without you perish, while living on classic fosterage can be done as we have done in the early age of humanity, surely it's not much living then surviving doing as such BUT it's still possible, so anyone can potentially do just owning land in almost any part of the world, it's just a matter of how much land is needed per human being. That's is... To preserve meat you just need salt (yes saltpetre help, but it's not mandatory) and salt can be easily sourced from the see and in some lands without any specific tech. Making salami, hams etc demand nothing more (the casings are obtained from the animal). I hope I have clarified now :-)
• krageon 5y ago
  > They mentioned that likely you'll pay the same for heating as before. You will not. You're describing city heating, which was easily 4-5 times as expensive as equivalent gas. That was before the > 2x price hike recently.