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One reason is the ukranian nazis, which are for you are "freedom fighters", but who just call (and not only call) for killing of russian people (it goes on for

One reason is the ukranian nazis, which are for you are "freedom fighters", but who just call (and not only call) for killing of russian people (it goes on for a very long time).Another reason is the persecution by ukranian nationalists of the Russian language, the Russian pravoslavic church, and just everything Russian, which goes on subtly enough to " not to be noticed" by the west. While russians are sure it is being tacitly encoraged by the west, just like the destruction of Serbian heritage of Kosovo by albanians. Yet another factor is that russians are sure that ukranians are just the avanguard of NATO forces which eventually aim to subjugate Russia. Finally, the defamation against everything Russian in the west reached such proportions (and it began long before the invasion), that it really reminds russians of the persecution of the jews in nazi Germany. Does that seem enough?

etotolkoya 5y ago
And I still did not mention Donbass, the expansion of NATO, and other factors.
conz 5y ago
Your response is one-sided and not historically accurate. Yes, there were Ukrainian Nazis, just like there were (and still are) American Nazis, British Nazis - in fact Nazis in most-all nations of Europe. That some Ukrainians fought against the Russians in the Second World War was because the Russians (who controlled the USSR) had caused the death (by starvation or murder) of approximately 5 million Ukrainians.[0] To many Ukrainians, the Russians were the enemy as much as the Nazis eventually become the enemy. "With the outbreak of war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1941, many nationalists in Ukraine thought that they would have an opportunity to create an independent country once again. An entire Ukrainian volunteer division of the SS had been created. Many of the fighters who had originally looked to the Nazis as liberators, quickly became disillusioned and formed the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) (Ukrainian: Українська Повстанська Армія), which waged military campaign against Germans and later Soviet forces as well against Polish civilians."[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://spectator.org/remembering-stalins-atrocities-against-the-ukrainian-people/ https://spectator.org/remembering-stalins-atrocities-against... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism
ls15 5y ago
> Finally, the defamation against everything Russian in the west reached such proportions Do you have any credible source that shows the level of these proportions? At least here in Germany, I think that people can well differentiate between Russian culture and its corrupt elites. Politicians and media specifically point out this distinction over and over. It is fair to attack criminal leaders, even from outside if needed (for example when pointing it out from inside is too dangerous). Feel free to attack Western criminal leaders as a mutual service. It will probably help the common people in the long run. I certainly won't take it personally or see it as an attack on everything Western.
- etotolkoya 5y ago
  I can list the desecration of monuments for Soviet soldiers all over Eastern Europe, the defamatory remarks made by the leaders of Baltic states, ignoring human rights violations of russians by the west, comments section of western press (especially some countries), where it is allowed to describe russians in most denigratory terms, cancelling of courses and cultural programs (after the war broke), the *explicit* permission of facebook/instagram to allow hate speech aimed at russians (later they kind of limited it, but the whole point is the ambiguity and vagueness of these permissions). And it is not just that. Unrelated, but since you are german: the fact that Germany, of all countries, supplies weapons to kill russians, with your kanzler Scholz being a grandson of SS official, is a heavy one.
  - cafard 5y ago
    Guess what: monuments for Confederate soldiers have been coming down all over the American south. There has been a great deal of resentment, but only the already unhinged refer to it as persecution of Southerners. When in the 1960s the IRA destroyed the Nelson Column in Dublin, nobody in the press referred to it as Irish persecution of the English. It is odd, perhaps disingenuous to refer to "comments section of western press". Anyone can write anything, and many often do.
    - etotolkoya 5y ago
cafard 5y ago
It would, if it were based in reality, perhaps. There is a great deal of harsh talk about the Russian leadership in US media, but I see little of "everything Russian". I would have no trouble finding Americans with a deep knowledge of and love for most things Russian, but who are thoroughly against the Russian policy on Ukraine etc. (I do think it wrong that Russian artists, or for that matter athletes should be asked to denounce Russian policy as a condition of employment in the EU or the US; but for example the Russians of the National Hockey League play on.) Frankly the "persecution by Ukrainian nationals" of language, of the church, sounds to American ears as if someone were singing off the Sudetenland songsheet.

etotolkoya 5y ago

And I still did not mention Donbass, the expansion of NATO, and other factors.

conz 5y ago

Your response is one-sided and not historically accurate. Yes, there were Ukrainian Nazis, just like there were (and still are) American Nazis, British Nazis - in fact Nazis in most-all nations of Europe. That some Ukrainians fought against the Russians in the Second World War was because the Russians (who controlled the USSR) had caused the death (by starvation or murder) of approximately 5 million Ukrainians.[0] To many Ukrainians, the Russians were the enemy as much as the Nazis eventually become the enemy. "With the outbreak of war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in 1941, many nationalists in Ukraine thought that they would have an opportunity to create an independent country once again. An entire Ukrainian volunteer division of the SS had been created. Many of the fighters who had originally looked to the Nazis as liberators, quickly became disillusioned and formed the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) (Ukrainian: Українська Повстанська Армія), which waged military campaign against Germans and later Soviet forces as well against Polish civilians."[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://spectator.org/remembering-stalins-atrocities-against-the-ukrainian-people/ https://spectator.org/remembering-stalins-atrocities-against... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism

ls15 5y ago

> Finally, the defamation against everything Russian in the west reached such proportions Do you have any credible source that shows the level of these proportions? At least here in Germany, I think that people can well differentiate between Russian culture and its corrupt elites. Politicians and media specifically point out this distinction over and over. It is fair to attack criminal leaders, even from outside if needed (for example when pointing it out from inside is too dangerous). Feel free to attack Western criminal leaders as a mutual service. It will probably help the common people in the long run. I certainly won't take it personally or see it as an attack on everything Western.

etotolkoya 5y ago
I can list the desecration of monuments for Soviet soldiers all over Eastern Europe, the defamatory remarks made by the leaders of Baltic states, ignoring human rights violations of russians by the west, comments section of western press (especially some countries), where it is allowed to describe russians in most denigratory terms, cancelling of courses and cultural programs (after the war broke), the *explicit* permission of facebook/instagram to allow hate speech aimed at russians (later they kind of limited it, but the whole point is the ambiguity and vagueness of these permissions). And it is not just that. Unrelated, but since you are german: the fact that Germany, of all countries, supplies weapons to kill russians, with your kanzler Scholz being a grandson of SS official, is a heavy one.
- cafard 5y ago
  Guess what: monuments for Confederate soldiers have been coming down all over the American south. There has been a great deal of resentment, but only the already unhinged refer to it as persecution of Southerners. When in the 1960s the IRA destroyed the Nelson Column in Dublin, nobody in the press referred to it as Irish persecution of the English. It is odd, perhaps disingenuous to refer to "comments section of western press". Anyone can write anything, and many often do.
  - etotolkoya 5y ago

cafard 5y ago

It would, if it were based in reality, perhaps. There is a great deal of harsh talk about the Russian leadership in US media, but I see little of "everything Russian". I would have no trouble finding Americans with a deep knowledge of and love for most things Russian, but who are thoroughly against the Russian policy on Ukraine etc. (I do think it wrong that Russian artists, or for that matter athletes should be asked to denounce Russian policy as a condition of employment in the EU or the US; but for example the Russians of the National Hockey League play on.) Frankly the "persecution by Ukrainian nationals" of language, of the church, sounds to American ears as if someone were singing off the Sudetenland songsheet.