5 ms·

"Nickel and Dimed" was mentioned in one of the fact-bubbles. I highly recommend the book for anyone who wants to learn more about the decisions people face whe

"Nickel and Dimed" was mentioned in one of the fact-bubbles. I highly recommend the book for anyone who wants to learn more about the decisions people face when in situations like this. I was spent for a time (about 10 months) being unemployed and lived on about $40 per week, skirting my rent, not having phone/internet, and getting my power cut (twice). Even though I ended up taking a job I didn't like, it payed well and I pulled myself out of that situation. Never Again.

allwein 15y ago
I had the same problem with "Nickel and Dimed" that I had with this game. She made a series of completely irrational decisions which resulted in expenses larger than they needed to be. As a counter to this, I highly recommend Scratch Beginnings by Adam Shepard. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061714275/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=keysofgeni-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061714275/ref=as_li_ss_tl?... The summary, from Amazon: Adam Shepard graduated from college feeling disillusioned by the apathy around him and was then incensed after reading Barbara Ehrenreich's famous work Nickel and Dimed—a book that gave him a feeling of hopelessness about the working class in America. He set out to disprove Ehrenreich's theory—the notion that those who start at the bottom stay at the bottom—by making something out of nothing to achieve the American Dream. Shepard's plan was simple. With a sleeping bag, the clothes on his back, and $25 in cash, and restricted from using his contacts or college education, he headed out for Charleston, South Carolina, a randomly selected city with one objective: to work his way out of homelessness and into a life that would give him the opportunity for success. His goal was to have, after one year, $2,500, a working automobile, and a furnished apartment.
- binarymax 15y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation - looks like a good read. Its been a while since I've read Ehrenreich's book but am curious - which decisions of hers did you find irrational? I will say that a fundamental flaw in Nickel and Dimed, (and most likely in Shepard's book as well) - is that she ultimately had a choice. Many people in these situations have no choice. Many of them have children. Many of them have no college education to fall back on. I count myself among the lucky.
  - cbr 15y ago
    which decisions of hers did you find irrational? I recall her writing about a job requiring a belt, and spending $40 to buy one new. Without a mention of a thrift store. As someone who lives on about $750/month [1], both the game and the book seemed not to notice major ways to save money like having a lot of housemates, commuting by bus, combining proteins, and thrift stores. Being poor definitely sucks, but the book and game imply it is impossible, which it clearly is not. [1] this doesn't include taxes and health insurance, which are deducted from my paycheque, but if I were making only $750/month I would have free health care from MA and negative taxes (EITC)
    - lurker19 15y ago
      Combining proteins?
      - cbr 15y ago
        Combining two incomplete proteins (rice, beans) to get a complete one. As opposed to eating generally more expensive complete proteins (meat, dairy). This saves money, but it's actually pretty small compared to other ways to be more frugal. So I probably shouldn't have brought it up.
  - cpeterso 15y ago
    I've read both books. Ehrenreich clearly had an agenda. I think Shepard gave an honest effort. He makes the point that knowing he could quit at any time (and carrying an emergency credit card, never used) would be a disincentive to working hard. If he did not have a safety net, he would probably work harder. Instead, he takes many hard day-labor jobs. In less than 10 months, he moves from a homeless shelter in a town where he knows no one to an apartment with one roommate. He goes from $25 to owning his own truck and savings of almost $5000.
- lurker19 15y ago
  I am curious to know how he avoided using his college education and the attendant cultural support. Did he take on an affected "low" accent, alter his skin color, give himself a few scars indicative of an unhealthy upbringing or a tour of duty in Iraq, deprive himself of sleep to simulate average intelligence, and invite some folks to play hanger-on friends and family?
  - ianferrel 15y ago
    Obviously, there's a limit to the extent that he could make himself lose the benefits of race, intelligence, and education. But I think he did a pretty reasonable job. He moved to a city semi-at-random, where he had no friends or family. He never claimed to have any more than a high school diploma. He lived in a homeless shelter and worked day-labor jobs until he could save enough to move out (with a roommate he met in the homeless shelter).
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  >Shepard's plan [in "Scratch Beginnings"] was simple. // If he did the same but tutoring a small group of randomly chosen people from the jobless line who were nonetheless motivated to achieve then I think he'd be on to something. Now just to find some way to buy the book ...
  - ichc-werker 15y ago
    > Now just to find some way to buy the book ... Library.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      It's an option. The local library will order books for a charge. The charge is about what we spend on entertainment for a week. Probably ebay would be as cost effective once you factor in travel cost. I can walk the couple of miles but not really with the kid(s).
  - ianferrel 15y ago
    When the book first came out, he made an offer to give a free eBook copy to anyone who asked for it because they couldn't afford it. Send him an email.

allwein 15y ago

I had the same problem with "Nickel and Dimed" that I had with this game. She made a series of completely irrational decisions which resulted in expenses larger than they needed to be. As a counter to this, I highly recommend Scratch Beginnings by Adam Shepard. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061714275/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=keysofgeni-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061714275/ref=as_li_ss_tl?... The summary, from Amazon: Adam Shepard graduated from college feeling disillusioned by the apathy around him and was then incensed after reading Barbara Ehrenreich's famous work Nickel and Dimed—a book that gave him a feeling of hopelessness about the working class in America. He set out to disprove Ehrenreich's theory—the notion that those who start at the bottom stay at the bottom—by making something out of nothing to achieve the American Dream. Shepard's plan was simple. With a sleeping bag, the clothes on his back, and $25 in cash, and restricted from using his contacts or college education, he headed out for Charleston, South Carolina, a randomly selected city with one objective: to work his way out of homelessness and into a life that would give him the opportunity for success. His goal was to have, after one year, $2,500, a working automobile, and a furnished apartment.

binarymax 15y ago
Thanks for the recommendation - looks like a good read. Its been a while since I've read Ehrenreich's book but am curious - which decisions of hers did you find irrational? I will say that a fundamental flaw in Nickel and Dimed, (and most likely in Shepard's book as well) - is that she ultimately had a choice. Many people in these situations have no choice. Many of them have children. Many of them have no college education to fall back on. I count myself among the lucky.
- cbr 15y ago
  which decisions of hers did you find irrational? I recall her writing about a job requiring a belt, and spending $40 to buy one new. Without a mention of a thrift store. As someone who lives on about $750/month [1], both the game and the book seemed not to notice major ways to save money like having a lot of housemates, commuting by bus, combining proteins, and thrift stores. Being poor definitely sucks, but the book and game imply it is impossible, which it clearly is not. [1] this doesn't include taxes and health insurance, which are deducted from my paycheque, but if I were making only $750/month I would have free health care from MA and negative taxes (EITC)
  - lurker19 15y ago
    Combining proteins?
    - cbr 15y ago
      Combining two incomplete proteins (rice, beans) to get a complete one. As opposed to eating generally more expensive complete proteins (meat, dairy). This saves money, but it's actually pretty small compared to other ways to be more frugal. So I probably shouldn't have brought it up.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  I've read both books. Ehrenreich clearly had an agenda. I think Shepard gave an honest effort. He makes the point that knowing he could quit at any time (and carrying an emergency credit card, never used) would be a disincentive to working hard. If he did not have a safety net, he would probably work harder. Instead, he takes many hard day-labor jobs. In less than 10 months, he moves from a homeless shelter in a town where he knows no one to an apartment with one roommate. He goes from $25 to owning his own truck and savings of almost $5000.
lurker19 15y ago
I am curious to know how he avoided using his college education and the attendant cultural support. Did he take on an affected "low" accent, alter his skin color, give himself a few scars indicative of an unhealthy upbringing or a tour of duty in Iraq, deprive himself of sleep to simulate average intelligence, and invite some folks to play hanger-on friends and family?
- ianferrel 15y ago
  Obviously, there's a limit to the extent that he could make himself lose the benefits of race, intelligence, and education. But I think he did a pretty reasonable job. He moved to a city semi-at-random, where he had no friends or family. He never claimed to have any more than a high school diploma. He lived in a homeless shelter and worked day-labor jobs until he could save enough to move out (with a roommate he met in the homeless shelter).
pbhjpbhj 15y ago
>Shepard's plan [in "Scratch Beginnings"] was simple. // If he did the same but tutoring a small group of randomly chosen people from the jobless line who were nonetheless motivated to achieve then I think he'd be on to something. Now just to find some way to buy the book ...
- ichc-werker 15y ago
  > Now just to find some way to buy the book ... Library.
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    It's an option. The local library will order books for a charge. The charge is about what we spend on entertainment for a week. Probably ebay would be as cost effective once you factor in travel cost. I can walk the couple of miles but not really with the kid(s).
- ianferrel 15y ago
  When the book first came out, he made an offer to give a free eBook copy to anyone who asked for it because they couldn't afford it. Send him an email.