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Lots of EU and NATO countries are post-soviet. The difference is only 1 or 2 generations away. When you have an incompatible religion, it's not generations awa

Lots of EU and NATO countries are post-soviet. The difference is only 1 or 2 generations away. When you have an incompatible religion, it's not generations away, when those generations hold on to that religion. That is the difference between Europeans with an older mentality, and people coming from a religion that doesn't share European values.

krageon 5y ago
> European values Which ones would those be?
- koonsolo 5y ago
  - law above religion - equality - democracy - Separation of powers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers) - ... See for official EU value: https://ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/ https://ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/
  - eldaisfish 5y ago
    are you confident in claiming that many areas of Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania etc share in all of these values? The crux of the problem here is that people are searching for reasons to justify actions that are rooted in racism. That is how you end up with vague discussions about feelings, incompatible cultures, "values" and so on.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - krageon 5y ago
    > law above religion When the laws come about as functions of entrenched religious thinking, one is not above the other. This value is also not listed on the page you link. > equality Clearly not, as not all refugees are equal. > Democracy You've got me there. Many of the listed values are there for PR purposes: The practicalities of daily living are different or in some aspects even very different.
    - koonsolo 5y ago
      > one is not above the other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state Take a good look at which countries are not part of that list. You cannot have freedom of religion without it. > Clearly not, as not all refugees are equal. The process seems equal to me: https://www.cgrs.be/en/international-protection/refugee-status#:~:text=To%20obtain%20in%20Belgium%20confirmation,restricted%20for%20a%20specific%20reason https://www.cgrs.be/en/international-protection/refugee-stat....
eldaisfish 5y ago
>When you have an incompatible religion That is a BIG generalisation and assumes there is a compatible religion. This is why Ukrainian propaganda is so dangerous. Poland and Hungary still have massive problems with LGBT rights and general tolerance. All signs point to the fact that Ukraine will be similar if not worse.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  > assumes there is a compatible religion Of course there is a compatible religion: Take buddhism for example. I agree that Poland and Hungary have problems with LGBT rights, but like I said, that is the 1 or 2 generational gap. Ukraine might indeed have that same problem. But give it a generation or 2. My wife is from Slovakia, and also there you can see the difference between mentality. Newer generations are more tolerant.

krageon 5y ago

> European values Which ones would those be?

koonsolo 5y ago
- law above religion - equality - democracy - Separation of powers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers) - ... See for official EU value: https://ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/ https://ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/
- eldaisfish 5y ago
  are you confident in claiming that many areas of Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania etc share in all of these values? The crux of the problem here is that people are searching for reasons to justify actions that are rooted in racism. That is how you end up with vague discussions about feelings, incompatible cultures, "values" and so on.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- krageon 5y ago
  > law above religion When the laws come about as functions of entrenched religious thinking, one is not above the other. This value is also not listed on the page you link. > equality Clearly not, as not all refugees are equal. > Democracy You've got me there. Many of the listed values are there for PR purposes: The practicalities of daily living are different or in some aspects even very different.
  - koonsolo 5y ago
    > one is not above the other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state Take a good look at which countries are not part of that list. You cannot have freedom of religion without it. > Clearly not, as not all refugees are equal. The process seems equal to me: https://www.cgrs.be/en/international-protection/refugee-status#:~:text=To%20obtain%20in%20Belgium%20confirmation,restricted%20for%20a%20specific%20reason https://www.cgrs.be/en/international-protection/refugee-stat....

eldaisfish 5y ago

>When you have an incompatible religion That is a BIG generalisation and assumes there is a compatible religion. This is why Ukrainian propaganda is so dangerous. Poland and Hungary still have massive problems with LGBT rights and general tolerance. All signs point to the fact that Ukraine will be similar if not worse.

koonsolo 5y ago
> assumes there is a compatible religion Of course there is a compatible religion: Take buddhism for example. I agree that Poland and Hungary have problems with LGBT rights, but like I said, that is the 1 or 2 generational gap. Ukraine might indeed have that same problem. But give it a generation or 2. My wife is from Slovakia, and also there you can see the difference between mentality. Newer generations are more tolerant.