5 ms·

If they _really_ despised him, imagine they could crash his car off a cliff as well? This is our self-driving future.

by hackernewds 5y ago

mlindner 5y ago
Tesla has no remote ability to control the vehicle.
- macintux 5y ago
  I don't know how we'd ever know that's true; at the very least, the capability would seem to be inherent in the system.
- revnode 5y ago
  They have remote root access to the vehicle. Even if they didn’t, they can push an update specific to your vehicle that then drives you off a cliff at a designated time.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    Updates are not automatic. You choose when to install them. People can and regularly do, wait long periods of time before updating.
    - catmanjan 5y ago
      Prove it? Link the repo
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > Updates are not automatic. You choose when to install them. People can and regularly do, wait long periods of time before updating. Says Tesla's software, which can be changed or can be lying. IIRC, one self-described ex-Telsa firmware guy recounted on some story where he or his team scripted running some SSH commands on a bunch of vehicles to fix some bug they pushed that wouldn't have been able to fix otherwise.
    - FireBeyond 5y ago
      Demonstrably false. Prior to the M3 release, someone with an MS discovered its existence in the firmware. Tesla disabled his ethernet port in the vehicle, automatically downgraded the firmware to another version which didn't have references, and then blocked the car from getting future upgrades. -User mode updates- may not be automatic - that does nothing to prove that Tesla cannot update a vehicle without interaction.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - mynameisvlad 5y ago
      Updates are also not generally delivered via cellular, unless they're classified as critical. Tesla owns the entire stack. They choose when to update, it just happens to be easier and more pleasant to give people the choice. Given that you can trigger the update via the mobile app, there is clearly support for remote updates. And if you as an owner can do it, then Tesla certainly can, even if they choose not to.
- kadoban 5y ago
  That's basically guaranteed not to be true. What would prevent them from sending software that does what the current one does except the steering is triggered by different events?
  - mlindner 5y ago
    Software updates are not automatic. You choose when they are installed. They can't just remotely force software into your vehicle.
    - gjs278 5y ago
    - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
      Is that by policy or by technology? If it's a confirmation button on a screen, I'm betting it's only policy that stops them from updating the software without permission.
    - dboreham 5y ago
      Anyone who develops software is going to say "yes they can". The optional aspect is just its normal behavior, but there will be a forced upgrade mode in there for if they ever need it.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Tesla has no remote ability to control the vehicle. As long as they can remotely update the software, it's always one update away from that.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    As I've already responded to three people in this comment chain (can no one read?). Tesla cannot remotely update the software. So many people believe so much nonsense propaganda about Tesla. It's unbelievable.
    - snypher 5y ago
      >Tesla cannot remotely update the software. Why would you have any reason to believe this? Honestly speaking, believing they couldn't would be buying into propaganda.
    - mynameisvlad 5y ago
      Just because you responded three times does not make you right. The ability to trigger an update from your phone is possible, Tesla can and does remotely start and stop updates in case of an issue downloading, and either way they own the stack all up and can change any behavior at any time.
    - privacyking 5y ago
      It must be nice to be ignorant.
- falcolas 5y ago
  Apparently false. A recent article by a repo man reported that Tesla set up FSD to bring the car out to the repo crew. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-remote-accessing-car-for-repo.260518/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-remote-accessi...
  - mlindner 5y ago
    Police have also claimed that they saw Tesla driving with no one in the car and many other things that are demonstrably impossible to do. This is just one more of those things that people claim because they like media attention regarding Tesla.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      They stated that the remote summon feature was used. Its a well known feature of Teslas FSD system, not some random event. Given the plausibility of the circumstances, we’d need an official statement from Tesla to debunk it. Not confident statements with no backing evidence.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      Smart summon is triggered through an API call over cellular network, true or false? Assuming the request is cryptographically signed or else originates over an encrypted connection, is the certificate in the hands of the car owner, or Tesla? QED, whether or not cops make shit up, Tesla has the capability to remote command teslas. If they are smart, they will prevent you from sending destinations to autopilot navigation over the same API. But anyway if they can push updates OTA w/o user interaction, it's all moot, I, Robot style
Guvante 5y ago
Assuming they have decent source control and an audit trail (most safety critical things do) you would probably have an easier time hiring someone to throw them off the cliff. Assuming you care if people find out you did it of course but if literal murder via software hacking doesn't get you in trouble then you could just hire a hitman for less money.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  So you are relying on Tesla to monitor Tesla and gather evidence of criminal behaviour by Tesla. Seriously, does noone see a tiny flaw here?
  - Guvante 5y ago
    This isn't something that is easy to do. You need to interact with probably 12 people any of whom could trivially copy the data off the machine and whistleblow you. Criminal behavior implies something minor. Murdering a dissident isn't minor.
    - randcraw 5y ago
      Of course, those 12 people could also expect to receive the same kind of 'sanction' that they just witnessed. And since their employer has access to all their personal communications while in the car, the company has access to a wealth of the most sensitive personal info that's almost trivial to abuse, if in fact retaliatory murder WAS considered to be overkill. That might be enough to dissuade them from whistleblowing. (That and the fact that whistleblowing is nearly always a great way to commit professional suicide in this country.)
throwawaylinux 5y ago
If they had good evidence he was a traitorous Russian agent or some other person who was a threat to the government or the corporation they would be be justified in extrajudicial execution. Or so many would seem to believe.

If they _really_ despised him, imagine they could crash his car off a cliff as well? This is our self-driving future.

mlindner 5y ago

Tesla has no remote ability to control the vehicle.

macintux 5y ago
I don't know how we'd ever know that's true; at the very least, the capability would seem to be inherent in the system.
revnode 5y ago
They have remote root access to the vehicle. Even if they didn’t, they can push an update specific to your vehicle that then drives you off a cliff at a designated time.
- mlindner 5y ago
  Updates are not automatic. You choose when to install them. People can and regularly do, wait long periods of time before updating.
  - catmanjan 5y ago
    Prove it? Link the repo
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Updates are not automatic. You choose when to install them. People can and regularly do, wait long periods of time before updating. Says Tesla's software, which can be changed or can be lying. IIRC, one self-described ex-Telsa firmware guy recounted on some story where he or his team scripted running some SSH commands on a bunch of vehicles to fix some bug they pushed that wouldn't have been able to fix otherwise.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    Demonstrably false. Prior to the M3 release, someone with an MS discovered its existence in the firmware. Tesla disabled his ethernet port in the vehicle, automatically downgraded the firmware to another version which didn't have references, and then blocked the car from getting future upgrades. -User mode updates- may not be automatic - that does nothing to prove that Tesla cannot update a vehicle without interaction.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    Updates are also not generally delivered via cellular, unless they're classified as critical. Tesla owns the entire stack. They choose when to update, it just happens to be easier and more pleasant to give people the choice. Given that you can trigger the update via the mobile app, there is clearly support for remote updates. And if you as an owner can do it, then Tesla certainly can, even if they choose not to.
kadoban 5y ago
That's basically guaranteed not to be true. What would prevent them from sending software that does what the current one does except the steering is triggered by different events?
- mlindner 5y ago
  Software updates are not automatic. You choose when they are installed. They can't just remotely force software into your vehicle.
  - gjs278 5y ago
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    Is that by policy or by technology? If it's a confirmation button on a screen, I'm betting it's only policy that stops them from updating the software without permission.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    Anyone who develops software is going to say "yes they can". The optional aspect is just its normal behavior, but there will be a forced upgrade mode in there for if they ever need it.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Tesla has no remote ability to control the vehicle. As long as they can remotely update the software, it's always one update away from that.
- mlindner 5y ago
  As I've already responded to three people in this comment chain (can no one read?). Tesla cannot remotely update the software. So many people believe so much nonsense propaganda about Tesla. It's unbelievable.
  - snypher 5y ago
    >Tesla cannot remotely update the software. Why would you have any reason to believe this? Honestly speaking, believing they couldn't would be buying into propaganda.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    Just because you responded three times does not make you right. The ability to trigger an update from your phone is possible, Tesla can and does remotely start and stop updates in case of an issue downloading, and either way they own the stack all up and can change any behavior at any time.
  - privacyking 5y ago
    It must be nice to be ignorant.
falcolas 5y ago
Apparently false. A recent article by a repo man reported that Tesla set up FSD to bring the car out to the repo crew. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-remote-accessing-car-for-repo.260518/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-remote-accessi...
- mlindner 5y ago
  Police have also claimed that they saw Tesla driving with no one in the car and many other things that are demonstrably impossible to do. This is just one more of those things that people claim because they like media attention regarding Tesla.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    They stated that the remote summon feature was used. Its a well known feature of Teslas FSD system, not some random event. Given the plausibility of the circumstances, we’d need an official statement from Tesla to debunk it. Not confident statements with no backing evidence.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Smart summon is triggered through an API call over cellular network, true or false? Assuming the request is cryptographically signed or else originates over an encrypted connection, is the certificate in the hands of the car owner, or Tesla? QED, whether or not cops make shit up, Tesla has the capability to remote command teslas. If they are smart, they will prevent you from sending destinations to autopilot navigation over the same API. But anyway if they can push updates OTA w/o user interaction, it's all moot, I, Robot style

Guvante 5y ago

Assuming they have decent source control and an audit trail (most safety critical things do) you would probably have an easier time hiring someone to throw them off the cliff. Assuming you care if people find out you did it of course but if literal murder via software hacking doesn't get you in trouble then you could just hire a hitman for less money.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
So you are relying on Tesla to monitor Tesla and gather evidence of criminal behaviour by Tesla. Seriously, does noone see a tiny flaw here?
- Guvante 5y ago
  This isn't something that is easy to do. You need to interact with probably 12 people any of whom could trivially copy the data off the machine and whistleblow you. Criminal behavior implies something minor. Murdering a dissident isn't minor.
  - randcraw 5y ago
    Of course, those 12 people could also expect to receive the same kind of 'sanction' that they just witnessed. And since their employer has access to all their personal communications while in the car, the company has access to a wealth of the most sensitive personal info that's almost trivial to abuse, if in fact retaliatory murder WAS considered to be overkill. That might be enough to dissuade them from whistleblowing. (That and the fact that whistleblowing is nearly always a great way to commit professional suicide in this country.)

throwawaylinux 5y ago

If they had good evidence he was a traitorous Russian agent or some other person who was a threat to the government or the corporation they would be be justified in extrajudicial execution. Or so many would seem to believe.