6 ms·

"Tibet has an estimated population of about 6 million Tibetans and 7.5 million Chinese settlers." [0] This is using the Chinese definition of Tibet, which is l

by anadem 5y ago

"Tibet has an estimated population of about 6 million Tibetans and 7.5 million Chinese settlers." [0] This is using the Chinese definition of Tibet, which is less than half of the historical Tibet. Han Chinese are encouraged to move into Tibet (and Xinjiang) to dilute the indigenous population. [0] https://unpo.org/members/7879 https://unpo.org/members/7879

copperwater69 5y ago
- cercatrova 5y ago
  It was the tactic of the British into Northern Ireland, interestingly enough. I suppose it's also the story of colonists coming into the Americas as well as parts of Africa, mainly South Africa.
- eloisius 5y ago
  Are you making thinly veiled references to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about replacing white people in Europe? I wouldn't assume so quickly, except that in your recent comment history you've repeatedly made anti-Semitic statements. I'm not gonna flag or downvote your comment, but at least have the personal honor to be direct about what you're insinuating. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30686118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30686118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30475258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30475258
  - gigatexal 5y ago
    Should there not be some platforms or speech that is ridiculed to death? I think they should be: anti-semitism (really any racism — it has no place on HN) or even the xenophobic fears of white Europeans being displaced… smh
    - Jimbonius 5y ago
    - copperwater69 5y ago
      I think its wrong to call it xenophobia when your culture and race is at risk of being diluted and minimised into a minority in your own country. I would even go so far as to call it xenophilia if you welcome that for your own people.
      - ogogmad 5y ago
        In principle, I'm willing to accept the right of countries to protect their "cultures" by limiting immigration. Within reason though: Once a person gets citizenship of a country, that right is irrevocable, and that person is as much a member of the country as any of its natives. But it's hard for me to do that when these culture protectors are outright racists and scumbags. Which they so often are.
      - gigatexal 5y ago
        In the example I gave in the original response: "white Europeans being displaced" I think I was needlessly vague. What I should have mentioned was that this displaced demographic is usually enfranchised, wealthier, educated, etc. If jobs are in question it just means that the labor market is flattening and the incumbents need to step up and skill up etc. Nobody is considering or advocating forced removal of people from their stations that's what makes this an irrational fear.
    - blindmute 5y ago
      Why is the Tibet situation sad, and the Belgium situation xenophobic?
      - eloisius 5y ago
        Maybe because Belgian women aren't receiving forced sterilizations. I don't know. Maybe that makes it different.
  - impossiblefork 5y ago
    Even so, this particular statement is factual: Belgians are about 50% of the newborn in Belgium. In Sweden numbers are less certain, but it's less than 60%, somewhere between 50% and 60%, so Swedes are likely to end up being a minority in Sweden, possibly a quite small minority, and the same with Belgians in Belgium.
    - eatplayrove 5y ago
      Are these 50% of newborns Belgians/Swedes by some divine right? Why aren't the rest Belgians/Swedes?
      - Jimbonius 5y ago
      - ciphol 5y ago
        Their skin is too dark. (/s or whatever the appropriate way is of disassociating myself from this idea)
    - misja111 5y ago
      The idea that there would be something like a 'pure Belgian', or Dutch or French or whatever, is an illusion. How many of those 50% new Belgians had all Belgian ancestors? And not some French, Dutch, German, Italian .. person somewhere up in their family tree?
      - Loic 5y ago
        A pure French exist! A pure French has "core values". He is proud to be French, a bit arrogant, a bit thinking like his country is big ("la Grande Nation"), the source of all the enlightenment philosophers, that English has more than 30% of its words directly taken from French and that without French cuisine and mode, and his magnificent country for the people to visit, the world would not be a place to live, can discuss without start and end on any subject and do not listen anyway to your answers. (I think there are many more core values, but I forgot them) It means that you can be pure French with Algerian, Moroccan, Chinese, whatever you want and have, roots. You just need to believe the core values and you are definitely French. Sometimes my wife tells me that I am a stupid French. ;-)
  - Jimbonius 5y ago
    [flagged]
jahnu 5y ago
I visited the 3 largest Tibetan cities in 2007. Each city had a "Tibetan Quarter". I can't see how this could ever be an independent country ever again.
- prox 5y ago
  Put all of the Tibetan Chinese in camps for re-education? You can ask the Chinese government how that works. /s EDIT : The current Uyghur camps are a tragedy in passing to which the world is turning a blind eye. Tibet should be continuously recognized as an independent country within the world community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs
- healsjnr1 5y ago
  Yeah I was there around the same time. The scale of the work being done to dilute the population is astounding. We were there at Christmas time, having driven from Kathmandu. That trip was telling in itself: there was only one way to get a visa to do that trip, and all of the trips were run by a single Chinese government run tour agency. Even with terrible roads, your can do the trip in 3 days of about 4 hours driving each. Instead they try and force most people into a 7 day tour. Luckily we got a driver we managed to haggle with and cut it down to 3 days. Those who did the 7 days ended up staying in weird empty towns that had large hundred room hotels that were _completely_ empty, but also fully staffed. The closer we got to Lhasa the more of this we saw. Huge infrastructure that appeared to serve no purpose other than to get people into the region.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    Settlement is an active effort, but Tibet is an incredibly hostile region and the Han suffer from various health and fertility problems there. The real solution to settlement would have to be Han intermarrying with Tibetans and raising their children as Han.

by anadem 5y ago

copperwater69 5y ago

cercatrova 5y ago
It was the tactic of the British into Northern Ireland, interestingly enough. I suppose it's also the story of colonists coming into the Americas as well as parts of Africa, mainly South Africa.
eloisius 5y ago
Are you making thinly veiled references to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about replacing white people in Europe? I wouldn't assume so quickly, except that in your recent comment history you've repeatedly made anti-Semitic statements. I'm not gonna flag or downvote your comment, but at least have the personal honor to be direct about what you're insinuating. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30686118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30686118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30475258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30475258
- gigatexal 5y ago
  Should there not be some platforms or speech that is ridiculed to death? I think they should be: anti-semitism (really any racism — it has no place on HN) or even the xenophobic fears of white Europeans being displaced… smh
  - Jimbonius 5y ago
  - copperwater69 5y ago
    I think its wrong to call it xenophobia when your culture and race is at risk of being diluted and minimised into a minority in your own country. I would even go so far as to call it xenophilia if you welcome that for your own people.
    - ogogmad 5y ago
      In principle, I'm willing to accept the right of countries to protect their "cultures" by limiting immigration. Within reason though: Once a person gets citizenship of a country, that right is irrevocable, and that person is as much a member of the country as any of its natives. But it's hard for me to do that when these culture protectors are outright racists and scumbags. Which they so often are.
    - gigatexal 5y ago
      In the example I gave in the original response: "white Europeans being displaced" I think I was needlessly vague. What I should have mentioned was that this displaced demographic is usually enfranchised, wealthier, educated, etc. If jobs are in question it just means that the labor market is flattening and the incumbents need to step up and skill up etc. Nobody is considering or advocating forced removal of people from their stations that's what makes this an irrational fear.
  - blindmute 5y ago
    Why is the Tibet situation sad, and the Belgium situation xenophobic?
    - eloisius 5y ago
      Maybe because Belgian women aren't receiving forced sterilizations. I don't know. Maybe that makes it different.
- impossiblefork 5y ago
  Even so, this particular statement is factual: Belgians are about 50% of the newborn in Belgium. In Sweden numbers are less certain, but it's less than 60%, somewhere between 50% and 60%, so Swedes are likely to end up being a minority in Sweden, possibly a quite small minority, and the same with Belgians in Belgium.
  - eatplayrove 5y ago
    Are these 50% of newborns Belgians/Swedes by some divine right? Why aren't the rest Belgians/Swedes?
    - Jimbonius 5y ago
    - ciphol 5y ago
      Their skin is too dark. (/s or whatever the appropriate way is of disassociating myself from this idea)
  - misja111 5y ago
    The idea that there would be something like a 'pure Belgian', or Dutch or French or whatever, is an illusion. How many of those 50% new Belgians had all Belgian ancestors? And not some French, Dutch, German, Italian .. person somewhere up in their family tree?
    - Loic 5y ago
      A pure French exist! A pure French has "core values". He is proud to be French, a bit arrogant, a bit thinking like his country is big ("la Grande Nation"), the source of all the enlightenment philosophers, that English has more than 30% of its words directly taken from French and that without French cuisine and mode, and his magnificent country for the people to visit, the world would not be a place to live, can discuss without start and end on any subject and do not listen anyway to your answers. (I think there are many more core values, but I forgot them) It means that you can be pure French with Algerian, Moroccan, Chinese, whatever you want and have, roots. You just need to believe the core values and you are definitely French. Sometimes my wife tells me that I am a stupid French. ;-)
- Jimbonius 5y ago
  [flagged]

jahnu 5y ago

I visited the 3 largest Tibetan cities in 2007. Each city had a "Tibetan Quarter". I can't see how this could ever be an independent country ever again.

prox 5y ago
Put all of the Tibetan Chinese in camps for re-education? You can ask the Chinese government how that works. /s EDIT : The current Uyghur camps are a tragedy in passing to which the world is turning a blind eye. Tibet should be continuously recognized as an independent country within the world community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs
healsjnr1 5y ago
Yeah I was there around the same time. The scale of the work being done to dilute the population is astounding. We were there at Christmas time, having driven from Kathmandu. That trip was telling in itself: there was only one way to get a visa to do that trip, and all of the trips were run by a single Chinese government run tour agency. Even with terrible roads, your can do the trip in 3 days of about 4 hours driving each. Instead they try and force most people into a 7 day tour. Luckily we got a driver we managed to haggle with and cut it down to 3 days. Those who did the 7 days ended up staying in weird empty towns that had large hundred room hotels that were _completely_ empty, but also fully staffed. The closer we got to Lhasa the more of this we saw. Huge infrastructure that appeared to serve no purpose other than to get people into the region.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  Settlement is an active effort, but Tibet is an incredibly hostile region and the Han suffer from various health and fertility problems there. The real solution to settlement would have to be Han intermarrying with Tibetans and raising their children as Han.