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What does ‘off by an hour’ even mean here? I don’t understand why this whole thing seems to be such a heated topic. Time on a clock is just a concept we all ag

What does ‘off by an hour’ even mean here? I don’t understand why this whole thing seems to be such a heated topic. Time on a clock is just a concept we all agree on. If we all agree “_now_ it’s 9am and we shall not change clocks from this point on”, then that’s that, _now_ is “9am”, there’s no “off by an hour”.

wolverine876 5y ago
It's about sun-time, which is how we naturally, I suppose, conceive of time. Midnight and noon, for example, won't be on the twelves.
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  Midnight and noon won't be on the twelves anyways except for one day out of the whole year no matter which system you choose.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    That seems a bit binary - i.e., as if it's perfect or it's meaningless. They would be much closer using Standard Time.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Because the daycare you are sending your 5 year old to doesn't agree that time is just a concept.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  Yes they do. They take you child at X:00, when the clock says X:00, they do not care if Earth is at 90 degrees rotation or 105 degrees rotation.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > Time on a clock is just a concept we all agree on. If we all agree “_now_ it’s 9am and we shall not change clocks from this point on”, then that’s that, _now_ is “9am”, there’s no “off by an hour”. I guess we are arguing about whether we can all agree on what now should be.
ginko 5y ago
Time on a clock has a relation to the position of the sun. By ancient definition 12PM would be when the Sun is at the highest point in the sky. Standardized time zones made this sort of squishy, but if you'd average the errors over the area of the timezone it would still be mostly right. At least to the point where you don't feel like lying to a child when you tell them that noon is the middle of the day.
_ph_ 5y ago
If time is just a concept, what is the value of DST vs standard time? The answer is: whatever the clock says, the day rythm of society follows strongly the sun. Permanent DST will shift most time schedules in the long run. Nothing will fundamentally be changed. The disadvantabe is, "noon" will be further off the high point of the sun. Due to time zones, it was not exactly the same in most places, but with standard time the deviation is reduced. Which for example has the practical consequence, that sunrise and sunset is symmetric to noon.

wolverine876 5y ago

It's about sun-time, which is how we naturally, I suppose, conceive of time. Midnight and noon, for example, won't be on the twelves.

squeaky-clean 5y ago
Midnight and noon won't be on the twelves anyways except for one day out of the whole year no matter which system you choose.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  That seems a bit binary - i.e., as if it's perfect or it's meaningless. They would be much closer using Standard Time.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Because the daycare you are sending your 5 year old to doesn't agree that time is just a concept.

xboxnolifes 5y ago
Yes they do. They take you child at X:00, when the clock says X:00, they do not care if Earth is at 90 degrees rotation or 105 degrees rotation.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > Time on a clock is just a concept we all agree on. If we all agree “_now_ it’s 9am and we shall not change clocks from this point on”, then that’s that, _now_ is “9am”, there’s no “off by an hour”. I guess we are arguing about whether we can all agree on what now should be.

ginko 5y ago

Time on a clock has a relation to the position of the sun. By ancient definition 12PM would be when the Sun is at the highest point in the sky. Standardized time zones made this sort of squishy, but if you'd average the errors over the area of the timezone it would still be mostly right. At least to the point where you don't feel like lying to a child when you tell them that noon is the middle of the day.

_ph_ 5y ago

If time is just a concept, what is the value of DST vs standard time? The answer is: whatever the clock says, the day rythm of society follows strongly the sun. Permanent DST will shift most time schedules in the long run. Nothing will fundamentally be changed. The disadvantabe is, "noon" will be further off the high point of the sun. Due to time zones, it was not exactly the same in most places, but with standard time the deviation is reduced. Which for example has the practical consequence, that sunrise and sunset is symmetric to noon.