5 ms·

> Who cares if the sun is up and bright at 6AM in the morning while I'm still sleeping. According to the research results, public health and economy would care

by sampo 5y ago

> Who cares if the sun is up and bright at 6AM in the morning while I'm still sleeping. According to the research results, public health and economy would care.

Apocryphon 5y ago
Public health also cares about not switching up schedules.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  They care even more about Year-round Standard Time: > We therefore strongly support removing DST changes or removing permanent DST and having governing organizations choose permanent Standard Time for the health and safety of their citizens. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541...
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Because we are still farmers who need to wake up at 6AM in the morning?
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Because we are still farmers who need to wake up at 6AM in the morning? I start work at an office starting around 8:30-9:00 and I wake up at 6AM. Not quite sure what that time has to do with farmers.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Sounds like you work in an all indoor environment where the sun matters not to your livelihood, unlike farmers.
    - macintux 5y ago
      Do you think farmers will orient their working hours around a clock or the sun?
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        Not in the modern era, no: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30691457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30691457
    - throw0101a 5y ago
      > Sounds like you work in an all indoor environment where the sun matters not to your livelihood, unlike farmers. My (late) grandparent were farmers: they only cared about the time on Sundays to make sure they weren't late for Church services. Otherwise the the cows needed milking when they needed milking (which I helped with when I visited them).
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Farmers don't care about the clock, neither do the cows. Work traditionally started when the sun came up, and cows got fed then too... since cows still can't read the clock, they still get up and want food at sunrise, DST or not.
  - justrudd 5y ago
    Haha! I worked on a dairy farm in my youth. Cows also don't care about what days off your government says you should have. Kids have a recital in the afternoon? Better have someone there to milk the cows. Woke up with a tooth ache? better have someone there to milk the cows. Cows also don't care about property lines :)
- greyhair 5y ago
  Almost all 'blue collar' work starts at 7:00 AM. It isn't about farmers. I was a farmer once, my day started at 4:30 AM. But I worked blue collar after that, my job 7:30 to 5:00, or 7:30 to 8:00 on long days. Even in my current white collar job, that habit has stuck, and I have been working 7:30 AM to 4:30 AM for the last thirty five years, mostly to avoid the bulk of the commute. So yes, there are millions of jobs across this country where people arrive at work, and punch in on a clock, at 7:00 AM every morning.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    I worked a blue color job where I was at work at 5:30 AM, sometimes 4:30 AM. The fact that it was never light out when I went to work, even when standard time was in effect, didn't bother me much.
joshstrange 5y ago
> According to the research results, public health and economy would care. Well, good thing we've never let that stand in the way of a decision. /s Personally I'd prefer more light later in the day so that I don't feel like the day is over as soon as I get off work but that's just me.
- d4mi3n 5y ago
  That's what the research supports. People go out more and spend money more when the sun is up after the working day. Kids play more. People exercise more.
  - joshstrange 5y ago
    Ahh, I think I read the comment I was replying to backwards (which is par for the course when it comes to TZ/DST-type things with me, "is it an hour earlier? or later").
    - runarberg 5y ago
      No, you read it correctly the first time around. E.g. from the first link in the dump above: > we find that an extra hour of natural light in the evening reduces sleep duration by an average of 19 minutes and increases the likelihood of reporting insufficient sleep. The health benefits of people staying out longer and spending more money (?) are disputed I believe. The reduced sleep of day starting before sun-up are pretty universally recognized as bad for public health (particularly among teenagers). Also note that if staying out longer was a goal to strive for, there are number of alternatives to encourage that. Including shorter worker ours, more public spaces, public events, etc. Conversely getting people to sleep longer is much harder with the clock set 1+ hour after the sun clock.
      - d4mi3n 5y ago
        > Also note that if staying out longer was a goal to strive for, there are number of alternatives to encourage that. Including shorter worker ours, more public spaces, public events, etc. Conversely getting people to sleep longer is much harder with the clock set 1+ hour after the sun clock. This are fantastic points I don't see in discussions around the topic. Goes to show that the solution space for a problem is often constrained by our perceptions of both the problem and what our expectations of a reasonable solution are.

by sampo 5y ago

> Who cares if the sun is up and bright at 6AM in the morning while I'm still sleeping. According to the research results, public health and economy would care.

Apocryphon 5y ago

Public health also cares about not switching up schedules.

throw0101a 5y ago
They care even more about Year-round Standard Time: > We therefore strongly support removing DST changes or removing permanent DST and having governing organizations choose permanent Standard Time for the health and safety of their citizens. * https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0748730419854197 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/07487304198541...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Because we are still farmers who need to wake up at 6AM in the morning?

throw0101a 5y ago
> Because we are still farmers who need to wake up at 6AM in the morning? I start work at an office starting around 8:30-9:00 and I wake up at 6AM. Not quite sure what that time has to do with farmers.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Sounds like you work in an all indoor environment where the sun matters not to your livelihood, unlike farmers.
  - macintux 5y ago
    Do you think farmers will orient their working hours around a clock or the sun?
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Not in the modern era, no: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30691457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30691457
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > Sounds like you work in an all indoor environment where the sun matters not to your livelihood, unlike farmers. My (late) grandparent were farmers: they only cared about the time on Sundays to make sure they weren't late for Church services. Otherwise the the cows needed milking when they needed milking (which I helped with when I visited them).
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Farmers don't care about the clock, neither do the cows. Work traditionally started when the sun came up, and cows got fed then too... since cows still can't read the clock, they still get up and want food at sunrise, DST or not.
- justrudd 5y ago
  Haha! I worked on a dairy farm in my youth. Cows also don't care about what days off your government says you should have. Kids have a recital in the afternoon? Better have someone there to milk the cows. Woke up with a tooth ache? better have someone there to milk the cows. Cows also don't care about property lines :)
greyhair 5y ago
Almost all 'blue collar' work starts at 7:00 AM. It isn't about farmers. I was a farmer once, my day started at 4:30 AM. But I worked blue collar after that, my job 7:30 to 5:00, or 7:30 to 8:00 on long days. Even in my current white collar job, that habit has stuck, and I have been working 7:30 AM to 4:30 AM for the last thirty five years, mostly to avoid the bulk of the commute. So yes, there are millions of jobs across this country where people arrive at work, and punch in on a clock, at 7:00 AM every morning.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  I worked a blue color job where I was at work at 5:30 AM, sometimes 4:30 AM. The fact that it was never light out when I went to work, even when standard time was in effect, didn't bother me much.

joshstrange 5y ago

> According to the research results, public health and economy would care. Well, good thing we've never let that stand in the way of a decision. /s Personally I'd prefer more light later in the day so that I don't feel like the day is over as soon as I get off work but that's just me.

d4mi3n 5y ago
That's what the research supports. People go out more and spend money more when the sun is up after the working day. Kids play more. People exercise more.
- joshstrange 5y ago
  Ahh, I think I read the comment I was replying to backwards (which is par for the course when it comes to TZ/DST-type things with me, "is it an hour earlier? or later").
  - runarberg 5y ago
    No, you read it correctly the first time around. E.g. from the first link in the dump above: > we find that an extra hour of natural light in the evening reduces sleep duration by an average of 19 minutes and increases the likelihood of reporting insufficient sleep. The health benefits of people staying out longer and spending more money (?) are disputed I believe. The reduced sleep of day starting before sun-up are pretty universally recognized as bad for public health (particularly among teenagers). Also note that if staying out longer was a goal to strive for, there are number of alternatives to encourage that. Including shorter worker ours, more public spaces, public events, etc. Conversely getting people to sleep longer is much harder with the clock set 1+ hour after the sun clock.
    - d4mi3n 5y ago
      > Also note that if staying out longer was a goal to strive for, there are number of alternatives to encourage that. Including shorter worker ours, more public spaces, public events, etc. Conversely getting people to sleep longer is much harder with the clock set 1+ hour after the sun clock. This are fantastic points I don't see in discussions around the topic. Goes to show that the solution space for a problem is often constrained by our perceptions of both the problem and what our expectations of a reasonable solution are.