6 ms·

pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those line

pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those lines on map I can't imagine myself fighting some politician's war, only thing I care about it's my own family and I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it as it's the case of poor Ukraine being attacked by slightly less poor Russia, now if Russia went to attack more developed western countries it would make sense to protect our way of life to not lower our living standards, but I still don't like the idea of wasting human lives over politicians. Every politician willing to go to war should be executed.

RobertMiller 5y ago
Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.
- Markoff 5y ago
  >Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
  - xdennis 5y ago
    Try to watch some real news from time to time.
    - Markoff 5y ago
      you mean the ones uncritically parroting Ukrainian propaganda without any verification which just switched from vaccine propaganda to UA war propaganda, that real news? just because they have Jewish president doesn't mean Nazis can't play significant role in Ukrainian politics, same as just because US had black president US racism didn't go away
  - orwin 5y ago
    I don't dislike reading stalinist statements on HN, but for information, the deportation of Crimean tatars started before 36, and started being touted as antinazism barely prior to Barbarossa. And of course the survivors would help nazis.
gambiting 5y ago
>>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that you are absolutely wrong about this. If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia, lives of everyone within that country would change dramatically. Take this from someone whose country wasn't even on the map of the world for almost 100 years(thanks to Russia, among others), and in many places speaking our language was an actual crime, as was teaching our culture and history. Yes, the country and its people still survived even though the borders were wiped off the map, but if you are assuming that nothing would change in your life other than the group of politicians in power, you are absolutely and gravely wrong. >>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I literally have no words. What if the richer and more advanced country then makes you a second class citizen with fewer rights than you had before? What if they say you can continue to live there, but only in a special camp set up for you? What if speaking your own language becomes illegal? Ask Palestinians how the "richer and more advanced" Israel is treating them exactly. Why would you not fight an invader? Do you have zero sense of self preservation?
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia What if Ukraine made a peace deal tomorrow and Russia withdrew from the country with the exception of Crimea and Donbas? This is an option. Everyone dying in this conflict is fighting over the NATO alignment of Ukraine, not who governs their homes.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>This is an option. Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU, and I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing, or that even promising that would stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway.
    - 5y ago
ProjectArcturis 5y ago
It's not just about borders and pride. Look at what happened in Donetsk -- on the Russian side, everything was stolen by Putin's gangster state. Anyone who owned a business or anything of value had it taken.
- Markoff 5y ago
  ...as opposed to Ukrainian not a gangster president who made world headlines just 5 months ago for widespread corruption involving even him people have very short memory and suddenly he is savior of Ukraine, while months ago he was just corrupted thief for majority with no chance for reelection
  - ProjectArcturis 5y ago
    None of that is true. Go peddle your Russian bullshit somewhere else.
readthenotes1 5y ago
There's a lot of pushback on your answer to my question already and I'm going to add my own: I think you should travel more, if possible. I believe you will see significant differences in the way that national governments treat their people in different regions of the earth. In some places, you cannot insult government members. In some countries, you cannot insult a religious figure. In some countries, you cannot do the same things that other people do because of your race, sex, or sexual orientation. By "cannot" , I mean "face execution or life imprisonment". And that is only based upon what I know going on currently. If you go back historically, things do get much more diverse. Predicting a response that these sorts of things only happen in extreme countries, my reply is that if there were no national borders other than the atmosphere, the leaders of that region would be the most ruthless and ambitious on the planet. I do not have fond hopes that they would somehow also be simultaneously the most compassionate and altruistic. Most great men are not good men. Or as someone put it: Power does not corrupt--it reveals.

RobertMiller 5y ago

Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.

Markoff 5y ago
>Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
- xdennis 5y ago
  Try to watch some real news from time to time.
  - Markoff 5y ago
    you mean the ones uncritically parroting Ukrainian propaganda without any verification which just switched from vaccine propaganda to UA war propaganda, that real news? just because they have Jewish president doesn't mean Nazis can't play significant role in Ukrainian politics, same as just because US had black president US racism didn't go away
- orwin 5y ago
  I don't dislike reading stalinist statements on HN, but for information, the deportation of Crimean tatars started before 36, and started being touted as antinazism barely prior to Barbarossa. And of course the survivors would help nazis.

gambiting 5y ago

>>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that you are absolutely wrong about this. If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia, lives of everyone within that country would change dramatically. Take this from someone whose country wasn't even on the map of the world for almost 100 years(thanks to Russia, among others), and in many places speaking our language was an actual crime, as was teaching our culture and history. Yes, the country and its people still survived even though the borders were wiped off the map, but if you are assuming that nothing would change in your life other than the group of politicians in power, you are absolutely and gravely wrong. >>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I literally have no words. What if the richer and more advanced country then makes you a second class citizen with fewer rights than you had before? What if they say you can continue to live there, but only in a special camp set up for you? What if speaking your own language becomes illegal? Ask Palestinians how the "richer and more advanced" Israel is treating them exactly. Why would you not fight an invader? Do you have zero sense of self preservation?

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia What if Ukraine made a peace deal tomorrow and Russia withdrew from the country with the exception of Crimea and Donbas? This is an option. Everyone dying in this conflict is fighting over the NATO alignment of Ukraine, not who governs their homes.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>This is an option. Is it? In what kind of world? I don't believe for one second that this is what would happen. Russia won't pull out until they at the very least receive a written promises from Ukraine that it won't join NATO or EU, and I don't see why Ukraine should promise either thing, or that even promising that would stop Russia from taking the entire country anyway.
  - 5y ago

ProjectArcturis 5y ago

It's not just about borders and pride. Look at what happened in Donetsk -- on the Russian side, everything was stolen by Putin's gangster state. Anyone who owned a business or anything of value had it taken.

Markoff 5y ago
...as opposed to Ukrainian not a gangster president who made world headlines just 5 months ago for widespread corruption involving even him people have very short memory and suddenly he is savior of Ukraine, while months ago he was just corrupted thief for majority with no chance for reelection
- ProjectArcturis 5y ago
  None of that is true. Go peddle your Russian bullshit somewhere else.

readthenotes1 5y ago

There's a lot of pushback on your answer to my question already and I'm going to add my own: I think you should travel more, if possible. I believe you will see significant differences in the way that national governments treat their people in different regions of the earth. In some places, you cannot insult government members. In some countries, you cannot insult a religious figure. In some countries, you cannot do the same things that other people do because of your race, sex, or sexual orientation. By "cannot" , I mean "face execution or life imprisonment". And that is only based upon what I know going on currently. If you go back historically, things do get much more diverse. Predicting a response that these sorts of things only happen in extreme countries, my reply is that if there were no national borders other than the atmosphere, the leaders of that region would be the most ruthless and ambitious on the planet. I do not have fond hopes that they would somehow also be simultaneously the most compassionate and altruistic. Most great men are not good men. Or as someone put it: Power does not corrupt--it reveals.