6 ms·

> Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart

> Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart and effective and the Russians look dumb. There are no winners in the war. Personally I am not siding with any side, I understand UA's right to defend themself (though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper) and I would be their huge fan, if it weren't for their obvious propaganda uncritically parroted by western MSM calling anyone doubting it Putin sympathizer. With such propaganda it's difficult to side with any party. I can also see last 8 years and don't think the attack came out of nowhere without reason as they try to push.

readthenotes1 5y ago
"though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper" Is that your position for all national borders, or just the one between Ukraine and Russia? Likewise, do you believe that statement holds for all time, or do you believe it true only for specific periods in time (if so, which periods)?
- Markoff 5y ago
  pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those lines on map I can't imagine myself fighting some politician's war, only thing I care about it's my own family and I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it as it's the case of poor Ukraine being attacked by slightly less poor Russia, now if Russia went to attack more developed western countries it would make sense to protect our way of life to not lower our living standards, but I still don't like the idea of wasting human lives over politicians. Every politician willing to go to war should be executed.
  - RobertMiller 5y ago
    Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.
    - Markoff 5y ago
      >Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
      - xdennis 5y ago
        Try to watch some real news from time to time.
        Markoff 5y ago
        you mean the ones uncritically parroting Ukrainian propaganda without any verification which just switched from vaccine propaganda to UA war propaganda, that real news? just because they have Jewish president doesn't mean Nazis can't play significant role in Ukrainian politics, same as just because US had black president US racism didn't go away
      - orwin 5y ago
        I don't dislike reading stalinist statements on HN, but for information, the deportation of Crimean tatars started before 36, and started being touted as antinazism barely prior to Barbarossa. And of course the survivors would help nazis.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that you are absolutely wrong about this. If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia, lives of everyone within that country would change dramatically. Take this from someone whose country wasn't even on the map of the world for almost 100 years(thanks to Russia, among others), and in many places speaking our language was an actual crime, as was teaching our culture and history. Yes, the country and its people still survived even though the borders were wiped off the map, but if you are assuming that nothing would change in your life other than the group of politicians in power, you are absolutely and gravely wrong. >>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I literally have no words. What if the richer and more advanced country then makes you a second class citizen with fewer rights than you had before? What if they say you can continue to live there, but only in a special camp set up for you? What if speaking your own language becomes illegal? Ask Palestinians how the "richer and more advanced" Israel is treating them exactly. Why would you not fight an invader? Do you have zero sense of self preservation?

readthenotes1 5y ago

"though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper" Is that your position for all national borders, or just the one between Ukraine and Russia? Likewise, do you believe that statement holds for all time, or do you believe it true only for specific periods in time (if so, which periods)?

Markoff 5y ago
pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those lines on map I can't imagine myself fighting some politician's war, only thing I care about it's my own family and I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it as it's the case of poor Ukraine being attacked by slightly less poor Russia, now if Russia went to attack more developed western countries it would make sense to protect our way of life to not lower our living standards, but I still don't like the idea of wasting human lives over politicians. Every politician willing to go to war should be executed.
- RobertMiller 5y ago
  Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.
  - Markoff 5y ago
    >Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
    - xdennis 5y ago
      Try to watch some real news from time to time.
      - Markoff 5y ago
        you mean the ones uncritically parroting Ukrainian propaganda without any verification which just switched from vaccine propaganda to UA war propaganda, that real news? just because they have Jewish president doesn't mean Nazis can't play significant role in Ukrainian politics, same as just because US had black president US racism didn't go away
    - orwin 5y ago
      I don't dislike reading stalinist statements on HN, but for information, the deportation of Crimean tatars started before 36, and started being touted as antinazism barely prior to Barbarossa. And of course the survivors would help nazis.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. Except that you are absolutely wrong about this. If Ukraine surrendered tomorrow and got annexed to be part of Russia, lives of everyone within that country would change dramatically. Take this from someone whose country wasn't even on the map of the world for almost 100 years(thanks to Russia, among others), and in many places speaking our language was an actual crime, as was teaching our culture and history. Yes, the country and its people still survived even though the borders were wiped off the map, but if you are assuming that nothing would change in your life other than the group of politicians in power, you are absolutely and gravely wrong. >>I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it I literally have no words. What if the richer and more advanced country then makes you a second class citizen with fewer rights than you had before? What if they say you can continue to live there, but only in a special camp set up for you? What if speaking your own language becomes illegal? Ask Palestinians how the "richer and more advanced" Israel is treating them exactly. Why would you not fight an invader? Do you have zero sense of self preservation?