7 ms·

It is almost as if most of western media just actively engages in propaganda, or reporting "objectively" on propaganda by citing "cope cages" ...

hidudeurcool 5y ago
snek_case 5y ago
Everyone has a tendency to engage in confirmation bias. Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart and effective and the Russians look dumb. If you want to try and be somewhat objective, you have to be critical and fight against your own confirmation bias. It's something a lot of people are incapable or unwilling to do. That being said, people (and organizations) make bad decisions all the time. It's possible that those cages are not a net win, but they're probably not the worst idea ever either. If they're a bad idea, ideally the troops on the ground tell you that and the cages stop being installed. Where that might fail though is that Russia has a much more authoritarian culture... Will your supervisors listen if you tell them something isn't working out?
- Markoff 5y ago
  > Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart and effective and the Russians look dumb. There are no winners in the war. Personally I am not siding with any side, I understand UA's right to defend themself (though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper) and I would be their huge fan, if it weren't for their obvious propaganda uncritically parroted by western MSM calling anyone doubting it Putin sympathizer. With such propaganda it's difficult to side with any party. I can also see last 8 years and don't think the attack came out of nowhere without reason as they try to push.
  - readthenotes1 5y ago
    "though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper" Is that your position for all national borders, or just the one between Ukraine and Russia? Likewise, do you believe that statement holds for all time, or do you believe it true only for specific periods in time (if so, which periods)?
    - Markoff 5y ago
      pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those lines on map I can't imagine myself fighting some politician's war, only thing I care about it's my own family and I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it as it's the case of poor Ukraine being attacked by slightly less poor Russia, now if Russia went to attack more developed western countries it would make sense to protect our way of life to not lower our living standards, but I still don't like the idea of wasting human lives over politicians. Every politician willing to go to war should be executed.
      - RobertMiller 5y ago
        Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.
        Markoff 5y ago
        >Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
        xdennis 5y ago
- more_corn 5y ago
  The cages are probably useful for improvised explosives dropped by drone, but could be improved. Improvised armor is usually created by people in the best position to know what the battlefield is like. However if nobody survives the most effective attacks, battlefield knowledge is less useful.

hidudeurcool 5y ago

snek_case 5y ago

Everyone has a tendency to engage in confirmation bias. Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart and effective and the Russians look dumb. If you want to try and be somewhat objective, you have to be critical and fight against your own confirmation bias. It's something a lot of people are incapable or unwilling to do. That being said, people (and organizations) make bad decisions all the time. It's possible that those cages are not a net win, but they're probably not the worst idea ever either. If they're a bad idea, ideally the troops on the ground tell you that and the cages stop being installed. Where that might fail though is that Russia has a much more authoritarian culture... Will your supervisors listen if you tell them something isn't working out?

Markoff 5y ago
> Many of us (myself included) really want to see the Ukrainians win, so it's tempting to pick and interpret news in a way that makes the Ukrainians look smart and effective and the Russians look dumb. There are no winners in the war. Personally I am not siding with any side, I understand UA's right to defend themself (though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper) and I would be their huge fan, if it weren't for their obvious propaganda uncritically parroted by western MSM calling anyone doubting it Putin sympathizer. With such propaganda it's difficult to side with any party. I can also see last 8 years and don't think the attack came out of nowhere without reason as they try to push.
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  "though it seems kinda pointless just wasting human lives and resources for some pride and borders on paper" Is that your position for all national borders, or just the one between Ukraine and Russia? Likewise, do you believe that statement holds for all time, or do you believe it true only for specific periods in time (if so, which periods)?
  - Markoff 5y ago
    pretty much on all borders, sadly it's not shared by most of the (world) population and politicians can always find idiots willing to fight to change those lines on map I can't imagine myself fighting some politician's war, only thing I care about it's my own family and I couldn't care less what is the name of the country I am residing and whether it's gonna change if it won't really affect my day to day life. I mean if richer more advanced country is going to conquer my country I am certainly not going to fight it as it's the case of poor Ukraine being attacked by slightly less poor Russia, now if Russia went to attack more developed western countries it would make sense to protect our way of life to not lower our living standards, but I still don't like the idea of wasting human lives over politicians. Every politician willing to go to war should be executed.
    - RobertMiller 5y ago
      Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory. Ukrainians are not fighting for their politicians, they're fighting for themselves. They're fighting for their families and communities.
      - Markoff 5y ago
        >Soviet Russians perpetrated genocide in Ukraine in living memory so did Nazi Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine in last 8 years world ain't black and white
        xdennis 5y ago
more_corn 5y ago
The cages are probably useful for improvised explosives dropped by drone, but could be improved. Improvised armor is usually created by people in the best position to know what the battlefield is like. However if nobody survives the most effective attacks, battlefield knowledge is less useful.