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Ask HN: Where should I live?
I'm looking to make a move from Brisbane Australia (not from there) and have the privilege of being able to look for a job and move pretty much anywhere. Where should I live?
Wish list:
1) Very warm climate (Brisbane has this)
2) Decent tech scene (or in a near enough timezone to enables remote work for US or EU employers) (Brisbane barely has this)
3) ACTUALLY diverse and cultured (Brisbane has gotten a lot better in the past ten years, but falls well short here IMO)
4) Non-car centric with good public and alternative transport opportunities (Brisbane falls well short here too)
The ultimate city for me would have the huge population and excellent public transport of Tokyo, the diversity of NY, Miami, London and Paris, the climate of Singapore and the non-car centrism of Amsterdam.
Short list so far:
* Barcelona?
* Lisbon?
* Miami?
* Austin?
* Tel Aviv?
* ??? Any Latin American or African cities I'm missing? Maybe Fortaleza, Recife, Salvador Bahia, Lagos, Dakar ???
Cities like NY, Toronto are diverse and have lots of opportunities but are too cold. Also not that great on public and alternative transport.
Sydney, Melbourne and Vancouver are too cold in winter and not that diverse. Also not that great on public and alternative transport.
Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen are very non-car centric but too cold.
Yes, I'm too picky and probably asking for the impossible =) but would love to hear more suggestions
- dotcoma 5y agoNot sure how you’d fare in Fortaleza, Recife and Salvador, which have their share of security issues. I doubt you’d stick to a place like Lagos for more than a month.
- bachback 5y agocheck nomadlist.com. nomad style would be travel to all the ones you fancy and spend a few weeks there, then you'll know. one of the most favourite nomad places worldwide is thailand and bali. if you factor in costs work from home/paradise very likely gives a lot higher payoff than locating at tech hubs in terms of price/value. e.g. Chiang mai, Thailand frequently ranks #1 on nomadlist. living cost there is shown at 1000$/month (versus 4400$ in London or 6000$ in SF, 3600$ in Brisbane).
- Giorgi 5y ago$1000/month will make you live like king in Tbilisi and Georgian cuisine is unmatched worldwide. Also super cheap craft beer and wine.
- p1esk 5y agoAre many Russians moving there because of the sanctions?
- Ambix 5y ago~25,000 Russians moved there right after the incident. So maybe many will return or move farther.
- Ayesh 5y agoI'd move to Georgia with absolutely no hesitation! The life is surprisingly "slow", people are more relaxed (apart from the recent protests related to the incident we all are worried about), friendly faces, and like you said, the cuisine caught me off guard and turned out to be absolutely amazing!
- firecall 5y agoSydney? ;-) I'm Adelaide based these days, and coming from London, the lack of day-to-day diversity is rather shocking! I'd suggest London and the South of England during the summer months!
- bedobi 5y agoWe seem to have a similar experience of Australia then :) scores very highly in many things but diversity just doesn't compare to London, NY etc. (which is to be expected so not a dig or anything but yeah)
- thorin 5y agoHa ha, I was going to suggest Byron Bay :-) From your list I'd go for Lisbon, I mean if you are interested in learning languages it has to be Europe really. Are you interested in any particular activities e.g. surfing and outdoor life is great in Lisbon and probably Bilbao too (although cooler).
- spupe 5y agoOut of your shortlist, I would recommend Lisbon. It's not as big but punches above its weight in most of your other criteria. The Brazilian cities you described do not have good public transport or bikes, and almost no foreigners. The advantage is that cost of living is very low, but Lisbon is also not that expensive as well.
- bedobi 5y agoReally appreciate this reply, I will bump Lisboa in my mental ranking then!
- saithound 5y agoAlas, if you consider Sydney winters too cold to bear, then you'll probably have a bad time in Lisbon too. Sydney is not only warmer on average, but also much less prone to cold spells (not that cold spells are common in Lisbon, but they certainly occur more frequently: the last time it snowed in Sydney was 1836; the last time it snowed in Lisbon was 2006). I think the climate you're looking for is more in line with Miami.
- bedobi 5y agoIt's true but I'm happy to trade some climate for the other factors on my wish list. Sydney and Melbourne both fail not only on climate, they're also not as diverse and cultured and don't have super great public and alternative transport. Based on the feedback here Lisboa def seems like a top option. (by all means Miami too)
- rosndo 5y agoBarcelona has gone to shit in the past couple of years, it’s gone from a relatively safe city to one where it’s commonplace for knife-wielding gangs to rob your car in the stoplights. Pre-covid, it was a wonderful place to live (although outside of restaurants customer service is non-existent)
- malux85 5y agoYeah op listen to this, some areas of Barcelona are now very dangerous, I lived there for 3 months during the worst part of covid. Covid induced unemployment has spiked crime a lot. It was not unusual to see drug addicted shirtless guys carrying machetes walking through the streets first during the night and now during the day. Infrastructure is starting to suffer because the drug addicts are pulling the copper out of the boxes. Some central areas are better but I have friends there still and over the past 6 months every one of them has been robbed
- rosndo 5y agoNot just “some areas”, our car got robbed while driving on C/ de Mallorca just 2 blocks from Sagrada Familia, a normally quiet area near the centre. Guys with knives surrounded the car and stabbed out the tires, pulled out whatever stuff they could get from the backseat. A couple of days later two guys in hoodies ripped my watch from my wrist after I stepped out to smoke next to a posh Eixample restaurant. Admittedly I’d occasionally heard those stories before, but never had such an issue while wearing the same watch every day for 4 years back when I lived in Barcelona pre-covid. It might still be quiet and safe in Sarria or Diagonal Mar, but the central areas seem to be worse than even the worst tourist areas were a couple of years ago.
- bedobi 5y ago@rosndo @malux85 not sure if you're just trying to scare away another expat or if it's legit :P but if legit that doesn't sound good at all :( any other places in Spain you would recommend? Valencia and some other cities are pretty non-car centric too, no?
- throwaway378037 5y agoTen years ago I’d have said Hong Kong, without hesitation. Now? I’m not so sure
- acqbu 5y agoI wanted to say the same thing, but I am reluctant to go back myself let alone recommend it these days
- digianarchist 5y agoTaiwan is an option. It actually has a visa that allows you to work there. A lot of people are throwing out country names with little regard of the ability to live and work there legally.
- colourgarden 5y agoYou don't mention if you speak any languages other than English? Whilst you'll get by OK in any large city with just English, some places are better than others. For example, in my experience, Lisbon (and Portugal in general) has a much higher level of English than Barcelona. Maybe language isn't a huge concern for you but you still have a level of bureaucracy and settling in moving to any new place.
- bedobi 5y agoNon English is a plus tbh
- Ayesh 5y agoWhy not Singapore? The tech scene there is amazing and inspiring, (too?) Warm, diverse, and very good public transportation. Heck, you can walk though neighborhoods if you fancy some sweating. Unfortunately it's a little bit too car-centric despite the expensive prices of cars, and I find the culture to be a little bit "unhinged".
- bedobi 5y agoIt's a place I've considered for sure but I've already spent five years in Tokyo so looking more outside Asia. (I know, I know, painting with a very broad brush here but yeah)
- benrbray 5y agoSingapore is pretty awful for LGBTQ rights, no? OP didn't mention it but it's the reason I would never consider living there despite having heard nice things.
- jesterson 5y agoDepends on how you define "LGBTQ rights". Nobody cares who you are with here, if that's what you are asking.
- benrbray 5y agoHomosexuality is still illegal, isn't it? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Singapore > In June 2019, at the Smart Nation Summit, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong reiterated that Singapore would keep Section 377A "for some time" saying, "Whatever your sexual orientation is, you're welcome to come and work in Singapore... You know our rules in Singapore. It is the way this society is: We are not like San Francisco, neither are we like some countries in the Middle East. [We are] something in between, it is the way the society is."[13][14]
- jesterson 5y ago
- frontman1988 5y agoTake a remote job and visit all
- airbreather 5y agoHo Chi Minh? If it's not what you want on any given day super cheap to duck off somewhere else. Tech scene, still french influenced, last time I was there a couple could live very comfortably for 2k a month, or even 1.5k.
- Loranubi 5y agoIt's non car centric alright... I wouldn't want to drive one around all the motor scooters anyway.
- saltmeister 5y ago
- pvaldes 5y agoBarcelona should fit well. If you want warm winters Madrid is not an option. You could take a look also to Valencia that has a Mediterranean climate and is a little warmer. Both have good beaches and lots of tourism. Barcelona has a metro so is a little less car centric maybe. Lisbon is Atlantic climate and the sea is colder but should be also a competitive option. Barcelona is one of the 3 most expensive cities to live in Spain. Portugal should be more affordable probably.
- commentsgaloer2 5y agoYeah, I think I'd go for Barcelona or other small towns nearby.
- _8j50 5y agoIn the US: Miami,Atlanta, Houston minus #4. Is there a city outside of Northeast that isn't car centric? "Actually diverse" is a tall order. Maybe a handful of cities fit that globally imo: in addition to the list above, nyc and I don't know, can't think of any but I am sure they exist.
- benrbray 5y agoAtlanta is second to maybe only LA in terms of how bad the traffic gets. Neighborhood streets backed up with highway traffic bad. Definitely not the place to look if cars stress you out like they do for me. On the bright side living there disillusioned me about American cities and now I live happily car free in Tokyo :)
- _8j50 5y agoNot a worry if you wfh and get most stuff delivered.
- Wonnk13 5y agoI'd say Chicago hits three of their points, but fails 1. miserably.
- tolai 5y agoLisbon is absolutely fantastic. I would happily move there. Walkable, very diverse, awesome beaches, great food, beautiful scenery, 1h or 2h by plane to rest of Europe. Amazing nightlife, best parties I've ever had :D
- ThereIsNoWorry 5y agoZurich, Switzerland. Very high living standard, great public transport, healthcare and whatever you could need. High to very high salaries (120k to 150k TC for experienced SWs at local companies, more at FAANG). It can be quite cold, though and there's certainly more diverse places.
- erikpl 5y agoMaybe Porto? Never been, but I've heard great things! Maybe check out the Nomadlist listing (heh): https://nomadlist.com/porto https://nomadlist.com/porto
- mariojv 5y agoI haven't been to Europe so can't compare it to some of your alternatives, but I've lived in south Texas for most of my life so could give some perspective there. Pros for Austin: * It definitely meets your first 2 goals of having a warm climate and a good tech scene. * I would describe Austin as moderately diverse. Not as much as SF, NYC, or Houston, but it has some things going for it. A lot of people are moving there from out of state, so it's growing a lot. There's great fusion food, especially if you like Mexican food, and it has the 3rd highest rate of LGBTQ people in the country. Despite being in Texas, the cities here are tolerant and diverse. * Great music scene and festivals. * Fun summer activities, like tubing down nearby rivers. * It would probably be a good place to raise a family, as it has some really nice neighborhoods and decent schools. * You have a lot to do if you'd like to get out of the city. Fredericksburg for German restaurants/culture and Texas wine country, Corpus Christi and North Padre Island for long weekend beach trips, San Antonio for very good Mexican food, Fiesta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_San_Antonio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_San_Antonio), or seeing the Riverwalk or historic missions. I live in San Antonio, for reference. * I'm not super familiar with the parks and trails, but I think they are good, if you enjoy cycling or running. The Austin Marathon is a blast. Cons: * It is car centric, and the traffic isn't great. However, a lot of people bike, so you could arrange it so that your work and errands are within a bicycle commute. I would definitely have a car for getting around elsewhere, though. * Cost of living is high, but tech salaries cover that. It's not to the level of cities like NYC or SF, though, and I think it's mainly limited to housing. * It is Texas, so there are certain regressive state policies, like a recent declaration from the attorney general attempting to criminalizing gender affirming healthcare for trans youth. A lot of these get challenged in court and thrown out, but it is something to consider. Good luck with your decision! Lisbon or anywhere in Spain sound amazing, too.
- pvaldes 5y agoIf you want extra hot places that had improved in terms of cars there is Seville also with a lot of recent bike lanes. Like Scottish in UK, they have a peculiar way to speak Spanish and all the common nuissances of being in a big city, but you will be dealing with just one language (Valencia and Barcelona speak two at the same time) and should be cheaper to live than both. Andalucía has a lot to offer in terms of gorgeous nature, culture (ancient mix of jew, muslim and christian heritages and links with America) and great food. Many good beaches at a reasonable distance and connected with Madrid by fast train AVE (2 hours 30 min) 15 times a day or so. The climate in summer is a little hot to me but if you live in Australia shouldn't be much different. Similar range of temperatures than Brisbane but less humid. My main concern would be the tech scene. Barcelona/Madrid are unbeatable in that.
- trcarney 5y agoTo mitigate the hot weather of Seville, you can live in one of the smaller towns closer to the beach. If you don't want to be around of a bunch of Americans, avoid Rota and El Puerto de Santa Maria as there is a U.S. Naval Base there. This could be a plus though as it may help you make friends quickly if you don't speak Spanish. If you have any questions about that particular area, let me know. I lived there for 3 years about 10 years ago while I was in the Navy.
- pvaldes 5y agoYes, you would have mountains and beach. I add that remote work shouldn't be a problem for most EU. All Spain except Canary Islands are in the same time region than Germany so you would cover most Europe in real time (From Norway to Italy and from Spain to Croatia). One hour more than London or Lisbon.
- yeahman 5y agoDubai fits the climate criteria. It has some tech scene, would love to have someone comment on this. 80%+ of Dubai are expats so it is probably diverse. Its a bit car centric though with only one metro line.
- RonaldOlzheim 5y ago1 Amsterdam Base --> legal stuff 2 Van Life --> freedom to roam around.
- tuckerpo 5y agoConsider Boulder, CO if you've got stupid amounts of money. The winters here are very mild (no, not sarcasm) and you'll find plenty of 50-70 F sunny days in the dead of January.
- cableshaft 5y agoI looked it up, wow you aren't kidding. It's about the same latitude as my hometown (roughly) so I just assumed it got as cold, but no it's significantly warmer.
- aliswe 5y agoNot Dubai, right? It probably falls on point 4.
- kbigdelysh 5y agoVancouver is not too cold in Winter but you get lots of rain. It has great public transport too. It's very expensive though.
- throwawayp0rn 5y agoHonestly all things being equal you should live where you are relevant. The scenary, temperature and all the rest gets old pretty quickly and you are left with the social connections you can make as the only metric of how you are faring in a city. And that is dependant upon your relevancy Given that you are planning to go as a foreigner all things being equal you should go for a place where you speak the local language and it has a decent amount of mobility and social volatility. Without mobility and social volatility you are essentially looking at people still latching onto social relationship they established early on such as high school or college, that makes harder to create connections for somebody who is just arriving. Mobility I don't think I have to explain, social volatility I'd define it as uhmm...essentially if you don't see fist fights or people arguing and going at each other, you won't even enjoy the opposite side of the emotional spectrum . Which I suppose is what you desire (maybe I am projecting) An international South American city where people make friends and fall off quickly: say Sao Paolo or Rio or Mexico City seems a good fit, but as I said depends upon your relevancy and ability to speak the language.
- resonance1994 5y agoThis is probably going to be the most ridiculous suggestion on this thread, but since you mentioned Latin American and African cities: Have you thought of India? the major South Indian cities (Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad) have large tech scenes, with Bangalore probably have one of the largest in the world. Many major US and EU employers have remote workers and/or offices here. The weather is certainly warm, perhaps even too warm :P I'm from one of these cities and spent several years living in Europe. It wasn't until I moved from continental Europe to the UK that I found a comparable restaurant scene to my home city. Beaches, deserts, forests, and mountains are all just a short flight away. Not sure what diversity means to you though, so I might get this one wrong. Uber, Ola, and other alternatives to cars are preferred by many, if not, well, you could always get a car with a driver, it's quite affordable on a developer wage. All three cities are building up their metro systems as well. Of course, life in India doesn't suit everyone. There are several negatives, which I guess everyone knows. As I said, it's probably the most ridiculous suggestion, but here it is.
- 2rsf 5y agoTel Aviv, and Israel in general, is very car centric, not what you mean by diversed and cultured and you will need to be a Jew to get an Israeli citizenship, permanent residencies are also hard to get AFAIK. Buy a good winter coat and come here to Stockholm, it is cold but (like Copenhagen) the infrastructure is really good and built for the weather.
- easyalgocode 5y agoI would recommend Dubai. Emerging tech scene in a new market (Middle East) and a metro with public buses spanning everywhere. Close to EU time but around 8-9 hours from US time but still manageable.
- atmosx 5y agoAthens nails (1), (2), (3) but not (4). I mean moving around the city with the bike is dangerous, as there are virtually no bike roads. The climate wasn't _very warm_ this year around though and the energy crisis is going to hit Greece hard. The summer is fantastic though as you can hop around the islands with ease. The diverse culture, hm. Well it's no Vienna or Berlin, I guess but you can meet ppl from all over the place. The tech scene is booming.
- regularperson25 5y agoYou can go ahead and scratch Miami from your list if you want non car centric, or decent public transportation, is non existant here.
- cvjcvjcvj 5y agoFlorianópolis, in Santa Catarina, Brazil.
- commentsgaloer2 5y agoI'd definitely live there, but I'm not sure it covers number 2 and number 3.
- aprdm 5y agoIt does. I mean, unsure what cultured means but it does have its own culture and takes pride on it. It probably isn’t as diverse as OP is looking for tho
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- aprdm 5y agoVancouver is not that diverse and doesn't have good public transport or bike infrastructure ? That's a first I hear.
- bedobi 5y agoVancouver has a large and visible Asian population ("diverse") but it doesn't have large numbers of Francophones, Afro, Caribbean or Latino people as eg Toronto or NY does (this is kind of what I'm trying to get at by saying "ACTUALLY diverse") please note I'm fully aware a) this is painting with a very broad brush, terms like "Asian" or "Afro" "population" are kind of nonsensical b) this is not a dig at Vancouver, it's just an observation - Vancouver pretty plainly not as diverse as eg Toronto or NY.
- aprdm 5y agoVancouver has a pretty big Latino community, I'm Latino and I live here. Lots of Mexicans and Brazilians. It's the warmer place in Canada.
- yesenadam 5y agoThis site may help with learning about details of the climate in places all over the world. I've learnt so much in just an hour with it: https://weatherspark.com/map https://weatherspark.com/map