7 ms·

I feel your pain, and am feeling very disconcerted on my own behalf too, having Win 10 and no plans of upgrading until network externalities positively force me

by gyulai 5y ago

I feel your pain, and am feeling very disconcerted on my own behalf too, having Win 10 and no plans of upgrading until network externalities positively force me to stop using it (at which point I'll probably give Linux on the Desktop another shot instead of upgrading to Win 11). But I'm finding it hard to believe that there isn't some escape hatch there. I absolutely cannot imagine that MSFT's corporate customers would play ball with something like that, and they still represent a powerful interest group where MSFT's decision-making is concerned. So there's got to be some escape hatch. Is it a Home vs Pro thing?

winternett 5y ago
I dunno if it's a Home or Pro issue, but if things get really bad, people will just begin to venture back to computer stores (Off Torrent Street) in the urban part of town and get a bootleg copy of winblows 2024 as they did in the past, then company sales will drop and they'll need to re-evaluate everything all over again. It's a vicious cycle.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  That is certainly going to be how Russians will be purchasing Windows in the near future. Please don't bootleg Windows. Even a pirate install counts as an install. Linux is so much better.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    If Linux were so much better, more of us would have switched already. The fact that reasonable people continue to use Windows despite bullshit like this is evidence that Linux really isn't so much better[0]. I can't help but think that some vocal portion of the community continually insisting that it is better and blaming its lack of adoption on laziness, or lack of technical understanding, is a significant factor in keeping it from being better than it is. That said, yeah, at this point Windows is becoming so bad that even I, a vocal Linux Desktop critic, must admit that soon Linux will at least be the less shitty of the two. [0] at least not for the people who are still using Windows. Obviously some amount of this comes down to how and why any given person uses a desktop computer at all.
    - immibis 5y ago
      Linux is a lot better for developers, mostly because lots of developers use it, in a feedback cycle, but the fact that most of the system is open-source also helps. It's also good if you just need to do one or two things and they happen to work on Linux. Some people install it on their grandma's internet PC. Even a majority of Steam games seem to work on Linux now, via Valve's fork of Wine.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        > Linux is a lot better for developers Depends on he kind of developer. Web developer? Probably. Game developer? It's a joke. > Even a majority of Steam games seem to work on Linux now, via Valve's fork of Wine. That at least is true, it's getting a lot better. However, VR is still a hell of a lot more problematic on Linux even if you're using Valve's hardware. Like I said, a lot of it comes down to how and why you use a desktop computer in the first place.
        shrimp_emoji 5y ago
        Yep. I think it's better at technical things for any kind of developer or technical person, generally. (Even at non-technical things in some cases: KDE, as a desktop environment, wipes the floor with Windows's desktop environment, from the taskbar to the file manager.) But if one developer's "better" includes "playing <AAA game with anticheat>" or "using Photoshop" or "using VR", the betterness is sharply decreased. I count myself extremely lucky my need/want matrix has happened to align such that I'm much more comfortable on Linux than on Windows, but that alignment is sadly RNG. :p
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Jesus Christ am I sick of hearing this "technical people" bullshit like technical people never choose to use Windows over Linux.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Developer !== UNIX person.
  - InCityDreams 5y ago
    >Please don't bootleg Windows. Even a pirate install counts as an install. Linux is so much better. Sorry, not for my needs, it's not. My powershell-gutted w10 pro runs the software i need with remarkably little fuss. I keep trying Linux every few years, but nope, not yet. So, dis-connected from the netm and piracy it will be.
  - majkinetor 5y ago
    Linux is not "so much better" as you can more or less do ANY thing on both without a problem. I use only cross-platform apps, so the OS choice is not a problem to me: firefox, thunderbird, powershell, vscode, copyq, dbeaver, audacity, pircard, doublecmd, less etc. all work the same everywhere. After using all OSes, Linux is still lacking vendor support that Windows has, so one needs les time and lower level knowledge then on Linux to setup some things. What we need is bloat free Windows, only kernel and package manager like Chocolatey/scoop/winget.
hef19898 5y ago
Privately I have a Windows powered, now hardware wise obsolete, desktop and two Lenovo laptops (a main one and an old as backup). The main one is running Windows and Ubuntu. The only reasons the laptop is still running Windows are a handful of, mostly older, Steam games and MS Teams for the kids. And I was too lazy to install Linux on the desktop. If it wasn't for MS Teams, Windows would be gone for a while now. No way I "upgrade" to Win11. Luckily, both laptops run professional Windows liscences, the backup one with only local accounts. So I hope that protects me from much of MS pressure to upgrade. Being used to local software, with local accounts and without "telemetry", I see the benefit of tue cloud. Less for storage, but Steam is actually a charm for example. Overall so, I think software took head dive when it came to user experience, privacy and performance. The fact that my OS will be serving ads now in the file explorer can only be part of one of Dante's rings of hell...
- avh02 5y ago
  There is ms teams for ubuntu, it's bigger garbage than ms teams on other OS's though.
- roeles 5y ago
  Ms teams is available for Linux... When I used it for work it ran fine on debian 10, but used enormous amounts of cpu. Not ideal for a laptop. Perhaps it's worth trying out?
  - bitwize 5y ago
    Perhaps try Jitsi Meet?
    - aembleton 5y ago
      Jitsi Meet doesn't connect to Teams meetings
  - dm319 5y ago
    As a long-time linux user, the MS teams linux client is woefully poor. It has ruined meetings for me by repeatedly losing the microphone. I use Windows more often for Teams meeting, and I'm not saying the Windows client is perfect in this regard either. Zoom on linux works well for me however.
hhh 5y ago
I used Windows 11 Home recently in a VM, and found it absolutely atrocious to use. It was genuinely one of the most disgusting things I have used on a computer in a while. It felt like one of the few times I tried to use an Android phone, and everything was filled with bloat everywhere you looked. This was a very stark comparison to my experience on my machine that I use Win 11 Pro on, which has none of the advertising fluff, TikTok isn’t pre-installed and pushed onto me when I open the start menu. It just has the things I want, that I added, and use frequently in the start menu. I didn’t use any of those uninstall scripts that tend to gouge into the OS, but it was upgraded from Win10, which had been installed ~3 months earlier.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  I have 11 pro and I did the ethernet bypass to avoid linking it to a cloud account but it's been making threatening gestures recently about "finishing setup." Is there a new technique?
  - ThatMedicIsASpy 5y ago
    If they have not removed it: 1. Settings (Win+I) 2. System 3. Notifications 4. [ ] Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device
- winternett 5y ago
  very complaint about it is firewalled behind log-ins and many platforms are probably working hard to suppress negative words concerning the upgrade now too... I appreciate your experience summary. Hopefully I can continue running v10 until public sentiment sorts the BS out like I did with Win7.
- sofixa 5y ago
  It's funny how you make a terrible assumption about an OS base while explaining the difference between the different versions of another OS. Android is a great base, and some OEMs customise it to hell, and add their "bloat". Some is genuinely terrible, some is interesting. There's always Google and Motorola phones ( at the very least) which give stock experience, and popular FOSS versions you can flash yourself if you fancy them more. Compared to the iOS experience, if you don't like it, you're holding it wrong ( does iOS finally support anything else besides all your apps are plastered on the home screen, with optional folders? As someone who grew up arguing with people who just put everything on their Desktop, i twitch thinking of that).
AyyWS 5y ago
MS's corporate customers using Exchange365 are getting Office365 pop-up ads. Office 2019 gets Office365 pop-up ads. MS Teams users are getting MS teams upsell pop-up ads. When these advertisements get sent to 9k corporate users, it causes a bunch of trouble tickets.
- rejectfinite 5y ago
  >MS Teams users are getting MS teams upsell pop-up ads I have no seen this in my enviroment?
  - AyyWS 5y ago
    I think this was what we ran into. https://office365itpros.com/2021/04/01/microsoft-push-ads-teams-personal-corporate-users/ https://office365itpros.com/2021/04/01/microsoft-push-ads-te...
WhyNotHugo 5y ago
Corporate customers don't seem to mind telemetry and alike. The "business" version will likely be paid but ad-free.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I would guess that the ads are for home users not business/corp users.
phatfish 5y ago
You have to use the enterprise "long term service branch" (or channel as i think it is now) if you want a sane version of Windows 10. Most of the annoyances are removed from there, and you can stick with an older version and not be forced to take the "feature" updates, 1809 works well. The only issue i had is their new Terminal app is not supported, i forget why. Last i read they were working on support, maybe it works now. A local KMS activator will license it, then you don't worry about adverts in Explorer, for a few years at least...
- gatonegro 5y ago
  > The only issue i had is their new Terminal app is not supported, i forget why. Last i read they were working on support, maybe it works now. It does! It's a bit trickier than just getting it from the MS Store, because that's not a thing in Windows 10 LTSC, but you can install some dependencies and get Terminal from GitHub[1]. I just set it up a couple days ago on an LTSC virtual machine, and it works just fine. [1] https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-install-windows-terminal-from-github/ https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-install-windows-terminal-from-...
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  1809 has been out of support since November 2020 for Home/Pro users (May 2021 for Enterprise/Education). https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-...
  - phatfish 5y ago
    As of May 11, 2021, all editions of Windows 10, version 1809 and Windows Server 2019 have reached end of servicing, except LTSC editions. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-10-1809-and-windows-server-2019 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/stat... The LTSC versions get 10 years of security updates.
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      Ah, interesting. I wasn’t aware of that. I even checked endoflife.date, but it looks like they aren’t aware either!
dTal 5y ago
You should definitely switch to Linux. It works very nicely, but frankly even if it did not it is less infuriating dealing with technical issues that will probably be fixed eventually than tolerating daily disrespect from some corporate overlord who feels entitled to dictate how you use your computer. It's like quitting social media - mildly inconvenient, vastly better for your mental health.
shp0ngle 5y ago
Windows LTSC is a secret escape hatch of sorts. But it’s basically impossible to buy for small numbers of computers legally. And when it’s possible, it’s crazy expensive. (no, those licenses on eBay are not legal.) Also the base Windows is not updated, so you end up with weird issues with games, that expect newer Windows; but sometimes also normal software. And Store is not there, which you might actually miss.

by gyulai 5y ago

winternett 5y ago

I dunno if it's a Home or Pro issue, but if things get really bad, people will just begin to venture back to computer stores (Off Torrent Street) in the urban part of town and get a bootleg copy of winblows 2024 as they did in the past, then company sales will drop and they'll need to re-evaluate everything all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

sandworm101 5y ago
That is certainly going to be how Russians will be purchasing Windows in the near future. Please don't bootleg Windows. Even a pirate install counts as an install. Linux is so much better.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  If Linux were so much better, more of us would have switched already. The fact that reasonable people continue to use Windows despite bullshit like this is evidence that Linux really isn't so much better[0]. I can't help but think that some vocal portion of the community continually insisting that it is better and blaming its lack of adoption on laziness, or lack of technical understanding, is a significant factor in keeping it from being better than it is. That said, yeah, at this point Windows is becoming so bad that even I, a vocal Linux Desktop critic, must admit that soon Linux will at least be the less shitty of the two. [0] at least not for the people who are still using Windows. Obviously some amount of this comes down to how and why any given person uses a desktop computer at all.
  - immibis 5y ago
    Linux is a lot better for developers, mostly because lots of developers use it, in a feedback cycle, but the fact that most of the system is open-source also helps. It's also good if you just need to do one or two things and they happen to work on Linux. Some people install it on their grandma's internet PC. Even a majority of Steam games seem to work on Linux now, via Valve's fork of Wine.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      > Linux is a lot better for developers Depends on he kind of developer. Web developer? Probably. Game developer? It's a joke. > Even a majority of Steam games seem to work on Linux now, via Valve's fork of Wine. That at least is true, it's getting a lot better. However, VR is still a hell of a lot more problematic on Linux even if you're using Valve's hardware. Like I said, a lot of it comes down to how and why you use a desktop computer in the first place.
      - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
        Yep. I think it's better at technical things for any kind of developer or technical person, generally. (Even at non-technical things in some cases: KDE, as a desktop environment, wipes the floor with Windows's desktop environment, from the taskbar to the file manager.) But if one developer's "better" includes "playing <AAA game with anticheat>" or "using Photoshop" or "using VR", the betterness is sharply decreased. I count myself extremely lucky my need/want matrix has happened to align such that I'm much more comfortable on Linux than on Windows, but that alignment is sadly RNG. :p
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Jesus Christ am I sick of hearing this "technical people" bullshit like technical people never choose to use Windows over Linux.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Developer !== UNIX person.
- InCityDreams 5y ago
  >Please don't bootleg Windows. Even a pirate install counts as an install. Linux is so much better. Sorry, not for my needs, it's not. My powershell-gutted w10 pro runs the software i need with remarkably little fuss. I keep trying Linux every few years, but nope, not yet. So, dis-connected from the netm and piracy it will be.
- majkinetor 5y ago
  Linux is not "so much better" as you can more or less do ANY thing on both without a problem. I use only cross-platform apps, so the OS choice is not a problem to me: firefox, thunderbird, powershell, vscode, copyq, dbeaver, audacity, pircard, doublecmd, less etc. all work the same everywhere. After using all OSes, Linux is still lacking vendor support that Windows has, so one needs les time and lower level knowledge then on Linux to setup some things. What we need is bloat free Windows, only kernel and package manager like Chocolatey/scoop/winget.

hef19898 5y ago

Privately I have a Windows powered, now hardware wise obsolete, desktop and two Lenovo laptops (a main one and an old as backup). The main one is running Windows and Ubuntu. The only reasons the laptop is still running Windows are a handful of, mostly older, Steam games and MS Teams for the kids. And I was too lazy to install Linux on the desktop. If it wasn't for MS Teams, Windows would be gone for a while now. No way I "upgrade" to Win11. Luckily, both laptops run professional Windows liscences, the backup one with only local accounts. So I hope that protects me from much of MS pressure to upgrade. Being used to local software, with local accounts and without "telemetry", I see the benefit of tue cloud. Less for storage, but Steam is actually a charm for example. Overall so, I think software took head dive when it came to user experience, privacy and performance. The fact that my OS will be serving ads now in the file explorer can only be part of one of Dante's rings of hell...

avh02 5y ago
There is ms teams for ubuntu, it's bigger garbage than ms teams on other OS's though.
roeles 5y ago
Ms teams is available for Linux... When I used it for work it ran fine on debian 10, but used enormous amounts of cpu. Not ideal for a laptop. Perhaps it's worth trying out?
- bitwize 5y ago
  Perhaps try Jitsi Meet?
  - aembleton 5y ago
    Jitsi Meet doesn't connect to Teams meetings
- dm319 5y ago
  As a long-time linux user, the MS teams linux client is woefully poor. It has ruined meetings for me by repeatedly losing the microphone. I use Windows more often for Teams meeting, and I'm not saying the Windows client is perfect in this regard either. Zoom on linux works well for me however.

hhh 5y ago

I used Windows 11 Home recently in a VM, and found it absolutely atrocious to use. It was genuinely one of the most disgusting things I have used on a computer in a while. It felt like one of the few times I tried to use an Android phone, and everything was filled with bloat everywhere you looked. This was a very stark comparison to my experience on my machine that I use Win 11 Pro on, which has none of the advertising fluff, TikTok isn’t pre-installed and pushed onto me when I open the start menu. It just has the things I want, that I added, and use frequently in the start menu. I didn’t use any of those uninstall scripts that tend to gouge into the OS, but it was upgraded from Win10, which had been installed ~3 months earlier.

jjoonathan 5y ago
I have 11 pro and I did the ethernet bypass to avoid linking it to a cloud account but it's been making threatening gestures recently about "finishing setup." Is there a new technique?
- ThatMedicIsASpy 5y ago
  If they have not removed it: 1. Settings (Win+I) 2. System 3. Notifications 4. [ ] Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device
winternett 5y ago
very complaint about it is firewalled behind log-ins and many platforms are probably working hard to suppress negative words concerning the upgrade now too... I appreciate your experience summary. Hopefully I can continue running v10 until public sentiment sorts the BS out like I did with Win7.
sofixa 5y ago
It's funny how you make a terrible assumption about an OS base while explaining the difference between the different versions of another OS. Android is a great base, and some OEMs customise it to hell, and add their "bloat". Some is genuinely terrible, some is interesting. There's always Google and Motorola phones ( at the very least) which give stock experience, and popular FOSS versions you can flash yourself if you fancy them more. Compared to the iOS experience, if you don't like it, you're holding it wrong ( does iOS finally support anything else besides all your apps are plastered on the home screen, with optional folders? As someone who grew up arguing with people who just put everything on their Desktop, i twitch thinking of that).

AyyWS 5y ago

MS's corporate customers using Exchange365 are getting Office365 pop-up ads. Office 2019 gets Office365 pop-up ads. MS Teams users are getting MS teams upsell pop-up ads. When these advertisements get sent to 9k corporate users, it causes a bunch of trouble tickets.

rejectfinite 5y ago
>MS Teams users are getting MS teams upsell pop-up ads I have no seen this in my enviroment?
- AyyWS 5y ago
  I think this was what we ran into. https://office365itpros.com/2021/04/01/microsoft-push-ads-teams-personal-corporate-users/ https://office365itpros.com/2021/04/01/microsoft-push-ads-te...

WhyNotHugo 5y ago

Corporate customers don't seem to mind telemetry and alike. The "business" version will likely be paid but ad-free.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

I would guess that the ads are for home users not business/corp users.

phatfish 5y ago

You have to use the enterprise "long term service branch" (or channel as i think it is now) if you want a sane version of Windows 10. Most of the annoyances are removed from there, and you can stick with an older version and not be forced to take the "feature" updates, 1809 works well. The only issue i had is their new Terminal app is not supported, i forget why. Last i read they were working on support, maybe it works now. A local KMS activator will license it, then you don't worry about adverts in Explorer, for a few years at least...

gatonegro 5y ago
> The only issue i had is their new Terminal app is not supported, i forget why. Last i read they were working on support, maybe it works now. It does! It's a bit trickier than just getting it from the MS Store, because that's not a thing in Windows 10 LTSC, but you can install some dependencies and get Terminal from GitHub[1]. I just set it up a couple days ago on an LTSC virtual machine, and it works just fine. [1] https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-install-windows-terminal-from-github/ https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-install-windows-terminal-from-...
Tijdreiziger 5y ago
1809 has been out of support since November 2020 for Home/Pro users (May 2021 for Enterprise/Education). https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-...
- phatfish 5y ago
  As of May 11, 2021, all editions of Windows 10, version 1809 and Windows Server 2019 have reached end of servicing, except LTSC editions. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-10-1809-and-windows-server-2019 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/stat... The LTSC versions get 10 years of security updates.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    Ah, interesting. I wasn’t aware of that. I even checked endoflife.date, but it looks like they aren’t aware either!

dTal 5y ago

You should definitely switch to Linux. It works very nicely, but frankly even if it did not it is less infuriating dealing with technical issues that will probably be fixed eventually than tolerating daily disrespect from some corporate overlord who feels entitled to dictate how you use your computer. It's like quitting social media - mildly inconvenient, vastly better for your mental health.

shp0ngle 5y ago

Windows LTSC is a secret escape hatch of sorts. But it’s basically impossible to buy for small numbers of computers legally. And when it’s possible, it’s crazy expensive. (no, those licenses on eBay are not legal.) Also the base Windows is not updated, so you end up with weird issues with games, that expect newer Windows; but sometimes also normal software. And Store is not there, which you might actually miss.