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> At some point, compassion has failed and incarceration is the only solution. The US has a higher incarceration rate than other developed countries, while als

> At some point, compassion has failed and incarceration is the only solution. The US has a higher incarceration rate than other developed countries, while also maintaining higher crime/violence rates. It doesn't seem to be a good solution to the crime problem. Does Andre get out of prison? What then? It may be more accurate to say, "At some point incarceration has failed and compassion is the only solution."

tomschlick 5y ago
> Does Andre get out of prison? What then? He either accepts the help again (housing, food, job, education, etc) and actually makes something of himself, or he commits more crimes and goes back to prison. Seems like a fairly straightforward deal to me.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  So, the current system? The same strategy that's gotten us the high incarceration and crimes rates we have today doesn't seem like a solution to anything. Seems like a straightforward way to changing nothing.
  - tomschlick 5y ago
    The part that is missing is the personal responsibility. If the guy doesnt change his direction with all the help thats available to him thats his own fault, not the system's.
    - long_time_gone 5y ago
      >The part that is missing is the personal responsibility. Where is that missing? It is there today. The fact is that society bears the financial burden of someone spending a life in prison (and also the emotional/financial/physical burden of the person's actual crimes). You seem to be dismissing that to make an ideological stance.
      - tomschlick 5y ago
        Thats not the case anymore in cities like Seattle/SF/LA that have removed funding from police and discouraged police to arrest for crimes like theft, breaking into cars, etc. In the cases where they are arrested they are released on no-bail hours later to do the same thing.
        long_time_gone 5y ago
        Now, to test the ideology, do Miami/Jacksonville/Ft. Worth. All Republican cities in Republican states, all with surging crime. They didn’t take the actions you mentioned, but have the same result. Maybe it’s an opportunity to re-visit baseline assumptions.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> The US has a higher incarceration rate than other developed countries Oh, we really suck at this, I admit! First, it should never have gotten to this point, and second, prisons should focus on fixing rather than punishing people. We are in agreement. But I don't think there are many options for Andre at this point (we should have done a better job 15 years ago). Washington state prisons are also a bit more on the reform side than other states in the country. > It may be more accurate to say, "At some point incarceration has failed and compassion is the only solution." Compassion should always come first, incarceration is a last ditch effort and means we have basically failed this person.

tomschlick 5y ago

> Does Andre get out of prison? What then? He either accepts the help again (housing, food, job, education, etc) and actually makes something of himself, or he commits more crimes and goes back to prison. Seems like a fairly straightforward deal to me.

long_time_gone 5y ago
So, the current system? The same strategy that's gotten us the high incarceration and crimes rates we have today doesn't seem like a solution to anything. Seems like a straightforward way to changing nothing.
- tomschlick 5y ago
  The part that is missing is the personal responsibility. If the guy doesnt change his direction with all the help thats available to him thats his own fault, not the system's.
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    >The part that is missing is the personal responsibility. Where is that missing? It is there today. The fact is that society bears the financial burden of someone spending a life in prison (and also the emotional/financial/physical burden of the person's actual crimes). You seem to be dismissing that to make an ideological stance.
    - tomschlick 5y ago
      Thats not the case anymore in cities like Seattle/SF/LA that have removed funding from police and discouraged police to arrest for crimes like theft, breaking into cars, etc. In the cases where they are arrested they are released on no-bail hours later to do the same thing.
      - long_time_gone 5y ago
        Now, to test the ideology, do Miami/Jacksonville/Ft. Worth. All Republican cities in Republican states, all with surging crime. They didn’t take the actions you mentioned, but have the same result. Maybe it’s an opportunity to re-visit baseline assumptions.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

> The US has a higher incarceration rate than other developed countries Oh, we really suck at this, I admit! First, it should never have gotten to this point, and second, prisons should focus on fixing rather than punishing people. We are in agreement. But I don't think there are many options for Andre at this point (we should have done a better job 15 years ago). Washington state prisons are also a bit more on the reform side than other states in the country. > It may be more accurate to say, "At some point incarceration has failed and compassion is the only solution." Compassion should always come first, incarceration is a last ditch effort and means we have basically failed this person.