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Taking loans to finance a lifestyle well beyond your means is orthogonal to car ownership. Used cars in the US are cheap, and outside the rust belt are also pe

Taking loans to finance a lifestyle well beyond your means is orthogonal to car ownership. Used cars in the US are cheap, and outside the rust belt are also perfectly fine. I've owned something like a dozen used cars in my life, most cost very little to own and operate, some even made profit when I sold them after fixing something obvious like a rotten ground connection. Through those years I learned how to repair and maintain the things which are marketable in-demand skills ensuring I'll never be unable to earn money - quite the opposite of keeping me poor. Don't blame cars for stupid people making stupid choices.

Rebelgecko 5y ago
From what I've seen, used cars haven't been as close to a good value in the US over the last 2 years. It takes a lot of years of depreciation to get a price significantly better than a new car, and if you drop $10k on a ten year old Honda Civic you'll miss out on a decade of fuel efficiency improvements, safety features, etc.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > you'll miss out on a decade of fuel efficiency improvements, safety features, etc. So... those who can't afford the ideal miss out on things? [obvious]
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    I think it's another instance of the Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice. Someone who can't afford a new car saves 30% by buying a decade old one. Except that old car is less efficient so they're buying 5-10% more for gas than if they had a new car. If you need a loan, interest rates are higher for used cars. The tires are crappy so they're spending $500 to replace them. The car has 100,000 miles on it so parts are worn down. Maybe you get really unlucky, and get in an accident that would've been prevented by a blind spot monitor or a backup camera. Maybe you get in an accident that would've happened regardless, but the older car doesn't prevent injuries that a newer model would've protected you from.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Pretty much all cars have been relatively safe since the mid-late 90s. We're deep in diminishing returns land with today's vehicles that have just kept piling on increasingly pointless crap making them heavier and more costly for little if any tangible benefit. And you've ignored the substantial cost of comprehensive insurance, required by the lien holder when you buy a car you can't afford using rented money.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  I agree for a lot of the better vehicles new is a better deal. The market insane right now so buying a car at msrp is actually a deal. Used cars have gone insane in pricing so your end up with similar annual costs for used as new.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Used cars are an unknown quantity these days: you just have the choice of buying from dealers (who might be trying to pull one on you) or buying from a private individual (who might be a scammer). Also, as cars become more complicated, DIY repairs and maintnence become trickier. At least if you buy new, you know pretty much about what you are getting. It might be better for most people to buy new but keep the car for 10 years (i.e. never sell it as a used car in the first place). > Don't blame cars for stupid people making stupid choices. That is incredibly judgmental (like saying "poor people are poor because they are stupid").
- pengaru 5y ago
  > That is incredibly judgmental (like saying "poor people are poor because they are stupid"). Except I'm referring to stupid people, not poor people. There's plenty of ostensibly not-poor people making these awful choices living beyond their means, effectively in the process of becoming poor or just anchoring themselves down on a treadmill of debt. Obviously there's a lot of pressure to live beyond your means, welcome to life in USA. Automobiles are just one facet of this ubiquitous phenomenon. But it's entirely feasible and practical to own and operate cars on a budget in the USA, cars are not the problem. The problem I've seen more of throughout my life is stupid and/or lazy people unwilling to even get their hands dirty because they refuse to accept they're not rich and can't afford the luxury of not keeping a set of oil-stained clothes.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    Once my car battery died, and I panicked. I don't work on cars, I literally had no idea how to even jump it. I had to watch a YouTube video, and get instructions from a local auto mechanic. I was basically stuck in a car lease, and I have left my car sitting for about a month or so, only needing to move it to avoid a street cleaning ticket. Not everyone is comfortable working on a car, and if you don't know what you're doing, this is extremely dangerous. For example, let's say you're not aware to never only support a car with a jack, if your jack slips, that could be the end. I wouldn't call someone stupid for not wanting to take the risk of their $1,000 estate sell find stalling in the middle of the highway. Plus let's just say you're poor poor. When I was much younger, I understood I could not afford both car expenses and rent. Luckily I was in a relatively transit friendly part of Los Angeles. So my 80$ a month bus pass did just fine. Even if someone just gives you a car for free, you're going to spend at least $300 a month between gas and insurance in most places. If your incomes only $2,000, that extra $220 is going to hurt

Rebelgecko 5y ago

From what I've seen, used cars haven't been as close to a good value in the US over the last 2 years. It takes a lot of years of depreciation to get a price significantly better than a new car, and if you drop $10k on a ten year old Honda Civic you'll miss out on a decade of fuel efficiency improvements, safety features, etc.

pengaru 5y ago
> you'll miss out on a decade of fuel efficiency improvements, safety features, etc. So... those who can't afford the ideal miss out on things? [obvious]
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  I think it's another instance of the Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice. Someone who can't afford a new car saves 30% by buying a decade old one. Except that old car is less efficient so they're buying 5-10% more for gas than if they had a new car. If you need a loan, interest rates are higher for used cars. The tires are crappy so they're spending $500 to replace them. The car has 100,000 miles on it so parts are worn down. Maybe you get really unlucky, and get in an accident that would've been prevented by a blind spot monitor or a backup camera. Maybe you get in an accident that would've happened regardless, but the older car doesn't prevent injuries that a newer model would've protected you from.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    Pretty much all cars have been relatively safe since the mid-late 90s. We're deep in diminishing returns land with today's vehicles that have just kept piling on increasingly pointless crap making them heavier and more costly for little if any tangible benefit. And you've ignored the substantial cost of comprehensive insurance, required by the lien holder when you buy a car you can't afford using rented money.
rdtwo 5y ago
I agree for a lot of the better vehicles new is a better deal. The market insane right now so buying a car at msrp is actually a deal. Used cars have gone insane in pricing so your end up with similar annual costs for used as new.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Used cars are an unknown quantity these days: you just have the choice of buying from dealers (who might be trying to pull one on you) or buying from a private individual (who might be a scammer). Also, as cars become more complicated, DIY repairs and maintnence become trickier. At least if you buy new, you know pretty much about what you are getting. It might be better for most people to buy new but keep the car for 10 years (i.e. never sell it as a used car in the first place). > Don't blame cars for stupid people making stupid choices. That is incredibly judgmental (like saying "poor people are poor because they are stupid").

pengaru 5y ago
> That is incredibly judgmental (like saying "poor people are poor because they are stupid"). Except I'm referring to stupid people, not poor people. There's plenty of ostensibly not-poor people making these awful choices living beyond their means, effectively in the process of becoming poor or just anchoring themselves down on a treadmill of debt. Obviously there's a lot of pressure to live beyond your means, welcome to life in USA. Automobiles are just one facet of this ubiquitous phenomenon. But it's entirely feasible and practical to own and operate cars on a budget in the USA, cars are not the problem. The problem I've seen more of throughout my life is stupid and/or lazy people unwilling to even get their hands dirty because they refuse to accept they're not rich and can't afford the luxury of not keeping a set of oil-stained clothes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 999900000999 5y ago
  Once my car battery died, and I panicked. I don't work on cars, I literally had no idea how to even jump it. I had to watch a YouTube video, and get instructions from a local auto mechanic. I was basically stuck in a car lease, and I have left my car sitting for about a month or so, only needing to move it to avoid a street cleaning ticket. Not everyone is comfortable working on a car, and if you don't know what you're doing, this is extremely dangerous. For example, let's say you're not aware to never only support a car with a jack, if your jack slips, that could be the end. I wouldn't call someone stupid for not wanting to take the risk of their $1,000 estate sell find stalling in the middle of the highway. Plus let's just say you're poor poor. When I was much younger, I understood I could not afford both car expenses and rent. Luckily I was in a relatively transit friendly part of Los Angeles. So my 80$ a month bus pass did just fine. Even if someone just gives you a car for free, you're going to spend at least $300 a month between gas and insurance in most places. If your incomes only $2,000, that extra $220 is going to hurt