4 ms·

> Moreover, the countries that would potentially aid India in any escalation of border disputes would be the US, Europe, etc. Nope, first it would be Russia th

> Moreover, the countries that would potentially aid India in any escalation of border disputes would be the US, Europe, etc. Nope, first it would be Russia that would help India. Russia has been the long term trust worthy friend of India. Ideally, yes, India should align with the West and probably wants to. But, without a NATO like equivalent that guarantees protection India gains nothing by aligning solely with the West instead of a known bad weather friend Russia. Some initial read on Russia (USSR) helping in the 1971 war - https://government.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/governance/opinion-russias-defining-moment-in-the-ind-pak-war-1971/88160555 https://government.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/governa... PS: this is just my limited understanding and how many see this in India.

bpodgursky 5y ago
That's the 90s/00s view, but I think there's a reassessment underway that Russia cannot practically extend military aid right now. The US supplying military aid, specifically F-16s, to Pakistan has been the biggest issue for a US/India strategic relationship.
- manojlds 5y ago
  It's not just about direct military aid. Russia will be the base for any trilateral talks with China when escalation happens. Russia's closeness with China also means some gains for India.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    I think the opposite, India has benefitted historically from friction between Russia and China (Russia wanted a warm-water port in the area, but if China is a strategic partner, that's mostly irrelevant).
wpasc 5y ago
Wow, pardon my ignorance. There's a whole wikipedia article on India Russia relations [1]. (I then checked how many bilateral relation articles there are, turns out a lot but clearly not exhaustive). there's a lot to the India Russia relationship dating back to the cold war and it's a close tie. Pardon my silly US lack of knowledge [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Russia_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Russia_relations
- hermannj314 5y ago
  On a work trip to India, I had a chance to visit the HAL aerospace museum in Bangalore. It was interesting as a museum of aircraft history but also told a story of diplomatic relations over time as well. I, as an American, was unaware of Russian-Indian relations until that visit.
  - manojlds 5y ago
    Curious, are Americans also unaware of America's close relationship and propping up of Pakistan?
    - clearcoat 5y ago
      Yes. I'd say the average American when asked which nation the US has had closer relations with (once you screen out the ones who don't even know Pakistan exists) would say "India" 9 times out of 10.
unmole 5y ago
> Nope, first it would be Russia that would help India. Russia has been the long term trust worthy friend of India. No matter how the war turns out, Russia will be significantly weakened. The isolation from the West will force it into a closer and subservient relationship with China. There is no way Russia will take India's side against China.
- manojlds 5y ago
  With US pulling out of Afghanisthan, importance of Pakistan reduces for the US and with Quad the relationship will grow. Until things solidify and some deals are worked out, India will have to tread carefully. That's my point.
  - redtriumph 5y ago
    QUAD relationship would be under strain given that other 3 members have sided with West.
    - unmole 5y ago
      The whole point of Quad is to counter China which is meaningless without Indian involvement.
    - manojlds 5y ago
      People here are more worried than even the US diplomats. Even US understands it - https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1497314441141972993?t=X8Yc55pSZkmLnrkKDtd7_w&s=19 https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1497314441141972993?t=X8Yc55p...
mcv 5y ago
> without a NATO like equivalent that guarantees protection This is also the problem with Ukraine. NATO members may like Ukraine and India for being democracies, but that's not worth much if they won't step up to defend when those democracies are under attack. I think the US, EU or NATO should form a broader alliance that extends this mutual defense to all democracies, at least when under attack by dictatorships. Not doing so gives dictatorships a free reign to attack democracies just outside NATO's borders, as we're seeing with Ukraine. And I'm mentioning the EU because I think being a democracy should also automatically come with beneficial free trade agreements. We like to talk much about how democracy is better, but if we leave struggling democracies to fend for themselves, democracy will always be under attack. I think that's a much better idea than allying with autocracies, as the US certainly has done way too often in the past.
- toyg 5y ago
  > Not doing so gives dictatorships a free reign to attack democracies Well, over the last twenty years it's arguably been democracies doing the attacks, to be fair... Maybe it would make more sense to rebuild supranational institutions that, y'know, actually make people figure things out. The UN Security Council has been effectively sidestepped since 2001, to the irritation of many. We need to rebuild mechanisms to resolve problems.

bpodgursky 5y ago

That's the 90s/00s view, but I think there's a reassessment underway that Russia cannot practically extend military aid right now. The US supplying military aid, specifically F-16s, to Pakistan has been the biggest issue for a US/India strategic relationship.

manojlds 5y ago
It's not just about direct military aid. Russia will be the base for any trilateral talks with China when escalation happens. Russia's closeness with China also means some gains for India.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  I think the opposite, India has benefitted historically from friction between Russia and China (Russia wanted a warm-water port in the area, but if China is a strategic partner, that's mostly irrelevant).

wpasc 5y ago

Wow, pardon my ignorance. There's a whole wikipedia article on India Russia relations [1]. (I then checked how many bilateral relation articles there are, turns out a lot but clearly not exhaustive). there's a lot to the India Russia relationship dating back to the cold war and it's a close tie. Pardon my silly US lack of knowledge [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Russia_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Russia_relations

hermannj314 5y ago
On a work trip to India, I had a chance to visit the HAL aerospace museum in Bangalore. It was interesting as a museum of aircraft history but also told a story of diplomatic relations over time as well. I, as an American, was unaware of Russian-Indian relations until that visit.
- manojlds 5y ago
  Curious, are Americans also unaware of America's close relationship and propping up of Pakistan?
  - clearcoat 5y ago
    Yes. I'd say the average American when asked which nation the US has had closer relations with (once you screen out the ones who don't even know Pakistan exists) would say "India" 9 times out of 10.

unmole 5y ago

> Nope, first it would be Russia that would help India. Russia has been the long term trust worthy friend of India. No matter how the war turns out, Russia will be significantly weakened. The isolation from the West will force it into a closer and subservient relationship with China. There is no way Russia will take India's side against China.

manojlds 5y ago
With US pulling out of Afghanisthan, importance of Pakistan reduces for the US and with Quad the relationship will grow. Until things solidify and some deals are worked out, India will have to tread carefully. That's my point.
- redtriumph 5y ago
  QUAD relationship would be under strain given that other 3 members have sided with West.
  - unmole 5y ago
    The whole point of Quad is to counter China which is meaningless without Indian involvement.
  - manojlds 5y ago
    People here are more worried than even the US diplomats. Even US understands it - https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1497314441141972993?t=X8Yc55pSZkmLnrkKDtd7_w&s=19 https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1497314441141972993?t=X8Yc55p...

mcv 5y ago

> without a NATO like equivalent that guarantees protection This is also the problem with Ukraine. NATO members may like Ukraine and India for being democracies, but that's not worth much if they won't step up to defend when those democracies are under attack. I think the US, EU or NATO should form a broader alliance that extends this mutual defense to all democracies, at least when under attack by dictatorships. Not doing so gives dictatorships a free reign to attack democracies just outside NATO's borders, as we're seeing with Ukraine. And I'm mentioning the EU because I think being a democracy should also automatically come with beneficial free trade agreements. We like to talk much about how democracy is better, but if we leave struggling democracies to fend for themselves, democracy will always be under attack. I think that's a much better idea than allying with autocracies, as the US certainly has done way too often in the past.

toyg 5y ago
> Not doing so gives dictatorships a free reign to attack democracies Well, over the last twenty years it's arguably been democracies doing the attacks, to be fair... Maybe it would make more sense to rebuild supranational institutions that, y'know, actually make people figure things out. The UN Security Council has been effectively sidestepped since 2001, to the irritation of many. We need to rebuild mechanisms to resolve problems.