4 ms·

Tell HN: Recruiters asking for current salary may respectfully fuck off

31 points by valar_m 5y ago

My new kink is responding to recruiters who ask for my current salary by asking them for the total comp for the role they're recruiting for. It's purely for entertainment, of course - I won't even meet with them after that. A company that asks your current salary is asking to find out how little they can pay you. They are seeking to create and exploit a superior bargaining position that results from unequal knowledge - they know how much you make and how much they pay, but you only know one of those things. And that's how they treat you before you start working there. I doubt that companies who do this can be persuaded to stop. But if I were a VC, it might give me pause to learn that a company in my portfolio does this. Knowing that the make or break comes down to people - or at least suspecting that might matter - might make me worry about a company that rejects valuing the one single resource that decides the whole ballgame. Anywho, my nonsense aside, the object of the game is to see how many messages a recruiter will respond with before giving an actual compensation number. An unsolicited phone call counts as two messages. My current record is 7.

fennecfoxen 5y ago
There’s about five words in the middle of this headline that don’t need to be there.
- mcdoogleson 5y ago
  this. The only recruiters worthwhile are those that are part of the company itself. I've never had anything but frustration working with third party recruiters.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    Just circling back to see if you got my earlier HN post. Did you miss it? I understand if now isn’t a good time; I’d love to connect. I hope you take my persistence as a compliment!
  - folkrav 5y ago
    And I've found my current role with one of them - I actually barely interacted with her and she basically just introduced me to the company. I just don't expect anything from them. I see them as a (rather inconvenient, but it's there) intermediate, that's pretty much it.
  - chrismcb 5y ago
    Depends on what you mean by third party recruiters. In my opinion there are two kinds. Those who are trying to find someone for a role. And this that well try to find YOU a job. I've gotten a could of jobs from the second kind. These are the kind that try to foster a relationship. There other type are basically used car salesman
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
civilized 5y ago
> My new kink is responding to recruiters who ask for my current salary by asking them for the total comp for the role they're recruiting for. I ask all recruiters for the top end of the comp range. It's my very first reply to them and usually my only one, as most don't reply after that. My favorite replies are the ones that act all flustered, like they've never been asked this in their life, like they can't imagine why would anyone ever ask that? They'll say stuff like "I'm afraid I don't currently have access to that information"... as if I asked them the price of potatoes in Southwest Venezuela.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
isthisfree 5y ago
As someone who hires people in my own company and who asks this question the reason is quite different from your understanding. I would hate to insult a candidate with an offer and always asks people to tell me how much they want to take the role. Most people responds by saying "today I make xxx". And if they, as many people do, say "I don't know, it is hard for me to decide" I will ask them how much they make today and ask them if they feel satisfied with that. To me it seems like 80% of candidates have a very hard time at negotiating salary because they really want the job. I will never, ever ask these things to try lowering the salary cost. I do ask these things to ensure a fair offer. ... but I guess it can be understood as you say it here as well. Never thought of that. That is valuable to know.
- pwdisswordfish9 5y ago
  > I would hate to insult a candidate with an offer Offer more then. Simple.
- mcdoogleson 5y ago
  Couldn't you just start out by telling them the salary range instead?
  - aerojoe23 5y ago
    Range is an interesting thing to me. If given a range without information about how a person is placed high or low in that range couldn't they just bait you and always offer the low end.
- valar_m 5y ago
  Seems like you're saying you ask for salary requirements, not for them to reveal how much they currently make. That's something else entirely. What I am specifically referring to is asking a candidate their current pay.
rich_sasha 5y ago
It's frustrating, but it's just life. Everyone is trying to get much and give little. You probably compare quotes for major expenses, rather than just pick a competent provider and pay their price, no questions asked. Or, for a better analogy, query a quote for a new service / good against what you paid for the last one. Work is a negotiated exchange of labour for money. Both parties try to negotiate and get ahead, in ways benign and not benign.
- valar_m 5y ago
  I should have been more explicit and less clever in the part about being a VC. I'm (poorly) suggesting there that it's detrimental to the company to treat employees as an adversarial relationship because the company will have a greater net benefit from treating employees well and compensating based on worth rather than minimum bid amount.
altacc 5y ago
The real reasons for asking for this might vary depending upon if the recruiter is internal or external, and of course standard practise in each country. I've been involved in recruitment for my own teams and some internal HR & finance managers will definitely ask this question to be able to provide the lowest possible offer and I will fight them on that. But I have never been told this information by an external recruiter working on behalf of a candidate. Possibly because they're working on commission, so are partially motivated to maximise compensation. As I have quite a few years experience most jobs aren't suitable for me and I don't want to waste time talking about them, let alone a phone interview. So when I'm looking for a new job, or I get cold-called, I will quickly ask for the job description and salary range, and if they won't give that I tell them a ballpark amount that I would be willing to move for. This ends a lot of calls very quickly. I negotiate salary later, from the position that I'm able to say no and find something else. As my current compensation is above market rate, I think it's working for me so far. Often when communication isn't as open & honest as it should be, you can still work your side.
- valar_m 5y ago
  What are some of those different reasons for asking a candidate for their current pay?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
morninglight 5y ago
An old Seinfeld episode outlined the correct response: Ask the recruiter to tell you their salary, and If they do, ask them how any competent recruiter would agree to work for such a pittance and hang up. If they will not divulge theirs, just remark that they obviously know how you feel, and hang up.

31 points by valar_m 5y ago

fennecfoxen 5y ago

There’s about five words in the middle of this headline that don’t need to be there.

mcdoogleson 5y ago
this. The only recruiters worthwhile are those that are part of the company itself. I've never had anything but frustration working with third party recruiters.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Just circling back to see if you got my earlier HN post. Did you miss it? I understand if now isn’t a good time; I’d love to connect. I hope you take my persistence as a compliment!
- folkrav 5y ago
  And I've found my current role with one of them - I actually barely interacted with her and she basically just introduced me to the company. I just don't expect anything from them. I see them as a (rather inconvenient, but it's there) intermediate, that's pretty much it.
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Depends on what you mean by third party recruiters. In my opinion there are two kinds. Those who are trying to find someone for a role. And this that well try to find YOU a job. I've gotten a could of jobs from the second kind. These are the kind that try to foster a relationship. There other type are basically used car salesman
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

civilized 5y ago

> My new kink is responding to recruiters who ask for my current salary by asking them for the total comp for the role they're recruiting for. I ask all recruiters for the top end of the comp range. It's my very first reply to them and usually my only one, as most don't reply after that. My favorite replies are the ones that act all flustered, like they've never been asked this in their life, like they can't imagine why would anyone ever ask that? They'll say stuff like "I'm afraid I don't currently have access to that information"... as if I asked them the price of potatoes in Southwest Venezuela.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

isthisfree 5y ago

As someone who hires people in my own company and who asks this question the reason is quite different from your understanding. I would hate to insult a candidate with an offer and always asks people to tell me how much they want to take the role. Most people responds by saying "today I make xxx". And if they, as many people do, say "I don't know, it is hard for me to decide" I will ask them how much they make today and ask them if they feel satisfied with that. To me it seems like 80% of candidates have a very hard time at negotiating salary because they really want the job. I will never, ever ask these things to try lowering the salary cost. I do ask these things to ensure a fair offer. ... but I guess it can be understood as you say it here as well. Never thought of that. That is valuable to know.

pwdisswordfish9 5y ago
> I would hate to insult a candidate with an offer Offer more then. Simple.
mcdoogleson 5y ago
Couldn't you just start out by telling them the salary range instead?
- aerojoe23 5y ago
  Range is an interesting thing to me. If given a range without information about how a person is placed high or low in that range couldn't they just bait you and always offer the low end.
valar_m 5y ago
Seems like you're saying you ask for salary requirements, not for them to reveal how much they currently make. That's something else entirely. What I am specifically referring to is asking a candidate their current pay.

rich_sasha 5y ago

It's frustrating, but it's just life. Everyone is trying to get much and give little. You probably compare quotes for major expenses, rather than just pick a competent provider and pay their price, no questions asked. Or, for a better analogy, query a quote for a new service / good against what you paid for the last one. Work is a negotiated exchange of labour for money. Both parties try to negotiate and get ahead, in ways benign and not benign.

valar_m 5y ago
I should have been more explicit and less clever in the part about being a VC. I'm (poorly) suggesting there that it's detrimental to the company to treat employees as an adversarial relationship because the company will have a greater net benefit from treating employees well and compensating based on worth rather than minimum bid amount.

altacc 5y ago

The real reasons for asking for this might vary depending upon if the recruiter is internal or external, and of course standard practise in each country. I've been involved in recruitment for my own teams and some internal HR & finance managers will definitely ask this question to be able to provide the lowest possible offer and I will fight them on that. But I have never been told this information by an external recruiter working on behalf of a candidate. Possibly because they're working on commission, so are partially motivated to maximise compensation. As I have quite a few years experience most jobs aren't suitable for me and I don't want to waste time talking about them, let alone a phone interview. So when I'm looking for a new job, or I get cold-called, I will quickly ask for the job description and salary range, and if they won't give that I tell them a ballpark amount that I would be willing to move for. This ends a lot of calls very quickly. I negotiate salary later, from the position that I'm able to say no and find something else. As my current compensation is above market rate, I think it's working for me so far. Often when communication isn't as open & honest as it should be, you can still work your side.

valar_m 5y ago
What are some of those different reasons for asking a candidate for their current pay?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

morninglight 5y ago

An old Seinfeld episode outlined the correct response: Ask the recruiter to tell you their salary, and If they do, ask them how any competent recruiter would agree to work for such a pittance and hang up. If they will not divulge theirs, just remark that they obviously know how you feel, and hang up.