4 ms·

Western countries? Pray give us some examples. Curious to know if this happens in Canada and USA.

by godelmachine 5y ago

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It does, but you won't know about it because they're frequently labeled as "unregistered illegal aliens".
- jasonjayr 5y ago
  This sounds like something a law could deal with quite swiftly? "Jail time + huge fines for anyone other than law enforcement with a legal order or warrant denying access any document a person requires for travel."
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Why not just scan all passports on arrival. Then if a passport is lost or stolen a fingerprint and biometric Id can just be used in place. The whole concept of a physical passport is so pre internet
    - api 5y ago
      Oh yes, but unfortunately the physical passport is enshrined in a ton of treaties that are very hard and slow to change. There are also some nasty privacy and autonomy implications to digitizing the passport system. This is not primarily a technical problem, but that doesn't mean it's not a very hard problem. Tech people tend to assume that every non-technical problem is easy. Often people, legal, ethical, and institutional problems are quite a bit harder than just making shit work at the tech level, and it is not just because people are lazy or inept. It's because there are loads of competing concerns and stakeholders.
      - rdtwo 5y ago
        Non technical problems are the worst. The type of problem would probably take tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in manpower to fix. The amount of meetings and negotiations is probably staggering
johannes1234321 5y ago
Yes, that happens in western countries. Either on construction sites or for "household aides." For the first the authorities in most western countries try to uncover it with raids on construction sites etc. The household situation is tough, as it is harder to see.
14u2c 5y ago
Here is a case of this exact thing occuring in one of the wealthiest counties in the US, right outside of Washington, DC. The police were actively assisting the traffickers as well. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-officers-protected-sex-trafficking-ring-81880833 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-offi...
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  The difference is that when something like this is uncovered in the US or Canada, we get news stories and politicians publicly condemning the practice. When forced labor happens in China, their state media calls it Western propaganda.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another? Notably, what is happening to Russia externally is different, because they first started a war by attacking Ukraine.
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      I guess not everyone is contented to sit and watch fellow humans suffer just because they’re on the other side of an imaginary line.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      > Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Because the governments have taken away or undermined all ability for people to organize. When you have to fear every single friend of you being a potential informant of the Secret Service, how will you find someone willing to do anything that goes against the government? Rule by fear is incredibly effective, it was what held together the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, the GDR and modern Russia and China. > Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another? Because we as humanity should have learned something from what my ancestors did in 1933-1945 - namely, to not stand aside in the face of obvious inhumanity.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
Get to know people at nearest local Vietnamese coffee shops, or Korean nail salons, etc. and you'll likely get some eye opening.

Western countries? Pray give us some examples. Curious to know if this happens in Canada and USA.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

It does, but you won't know about it because they're frequently labeled as "unregistered illegal aliens".

jasonjayr 5y ago
This sounds like something a law could deal with quite swiftly? "Jail time + huge fines for anyone other than law enforcement with a legal order or warrant denying access any document a person requires for travel."
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Why not just scan all passports on arrival. Then if a passport is lost or stolen a fingerprint and biometric Id can just be used in place. The whole concept of a physical passport is so pre internet
  - api 5y ago
    Oh yes, but unfortunately the physical passport is enshrined in a ton of treaties that are very hard and slow to change. There are also some nasty privacy and autonomy implications to digitizing the passport system. This is not primarily a technical problem, but that doesn't mean it's not a very hard problem. Tech people tend to assume that every non-technical problem is easy. Often people, legal, ethical, and institutional problems are quite a bit harder than just making shit work at the tech level, and it is not just because people are lazy or inept. It's because there are loads of competing concerns and stakeholders.
    - rdtwo 5y ago
      Non technical problems are the worst. The type of problem would probably take tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in manpower to fix. The amount of meetings and negotiations is probably staggering

johannes1234321 5y ago

Yes, that happens in western countries. Either on construction sites or for "household aides." For the first the authorities in most western countries try to uncover it with raids on construction sites etc. The household situation is tough, as it is harder to see.

14u2c 5y ago

Here is a case of this exact thing occuring in one of the wealthiest counties in the US, right outside of Washington, DC. The police were actively assisting the traffickers as well. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-officers-protected-sex-trafficking-ring-81880833 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suit-fairfax-police-offi...

honkdaddy 5y ago
The difference is that when something like this is uncovered in the US or Canada, we get news stories and politicians publicly condemning the practice. When forced labor happens in China, their state media calls it Western propaganda.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another? Notably, what is happening to Russia externally is different, because they first started a war by attacking Ukraine.
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    I guess not everyone is contented to sit and watch fellow humans suffer just because they’re on the other side of an imaginary line.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > Then why don’t the people rise up against their state? Because the governments have taken away or undermined all ability for people to organize. When you have to fear every single friend of you being a potential informant of the Secret Service, how will you find someone willing to do anything that goes against the government? Rule by fear is incredibly effective, it was what held together the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, the GDR and modern Russia and China. > Why would it be the business of other nations to intervene in the internal affairs of another? Because we as humanity should have learned something from what my ancestors did in 1933-1945 - namely, to not stand aside in the face of obvious inhumanity.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

Get to know people at nearest local Vietnamese coffee shops, or Korean nail salons, etc. and you'll likely get some eye opening.