4 ms·

Birmingham's invisible woman

59 points by chippy 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
danboarder 5y ago
This reminds me of the makeup art and privacy activist projects used to confuse facial recognition camera systems a couple years ago, here is one example (of many): Hiding in plain sight: activists don camouflage to beat Met surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/01/privacy-campaigners-dazzle-camouflage-met-police-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/01/privacy-campai...
- gumby 5y ago
  Early in the article the idea of camouflage makeup is mentioned, but this is IMHO more interesting: first, going the opposite way (making yourself actually invisible to the infrastructure, not just unrecognizable). Then the bulk of the article is about revisiting the idea of invisibility (how certain people are socially invisible) which is also fascinating.
bob66 5y ago
dkdbejwi383 5y ago
I've always been fascinated by psychogeography, but I feel like I might be too dim to really grasp it. It always feels like a particularly abstract, intellectual thing that people who (appear to be) much smarter than me seem to understand but which I cannot.
- lqet 5y ago
  Hm, after reading the Wikipedia article on psychogeography, I am not sure whether it is satire: > Psychogeography is the exploration of urban environments that emphasizes interpersonal connections to places and arbitrary routes, and follows a loosely defined urban practice known as the dérive. It was developed by members of the Letterist International and Situationist International, which were revolutionary groups influenced by Marxist and anarchist theory as well as the attitudes and methods of Dadaists and Surrealists. In 1955, Guy Debord defined psychogeography as "the study of the precise laws and specific effects of the geographical environment, consciously organized or not, on the emotions and behavior of individuals." > The first published discussion of psychogeography was in the Lettrist journal Potlatch (1954), which included a 'Psychogeographical Game of the Week': Depending on what you are after, choose an area, a more or less populous city, a more or less lively street. Build a house. Furnish it. Make the most of its decoration and surroundings. Choose the season and the time. Gather together the right people, the best records and drinks. Lighting and conversation must, of course, be appropriate, along with the weather and your memories. If your calculations are correct, you should find the outcome satisfying.
  - dkdbejwi383 5y ago
    I'm still not convinced it's an actual thing, and not just a pretentious way to say "going for a walk"
  - anon_123g987 5y ago
    If satire, it's hilarious. If not, it's ridiculous. The same people will take it seriously either way, so there's not much difference.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    The first published discussion sounds like satire (or a hyperbolized example), but the description given by Guy Debord seems pretty straight forward to me. If I were try to put it even simpler, I would define it as: "Psychogeography is the study of why people enjoy, or behave in certain ways in, certain surroundings over others". That being said, the fact that Debord claims both that psychogeography is the study of "precise laws" and that psychogeography is "charmingly vague", seems conflicting.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
How do they even know that their camouflage foils the surveillance cameras? Ok for the passport example with the missing head, but if you just walk the streets?
- tgv 5y ago
  If I were to build a facial recognition system, I wouldn't use color input. Doesn't e.g. Apple's facial recognition use infrared?
- chippy 5y ago
  It's also about that classic social engineering tactic to blend in. Who would even notice a beige middle-aged woman anywhere, just like a high-vis and clipboard will avoid most suspicions.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    I don't think that would work for AI based systems.
- tjpnz 5y ago
  Given how facial recognition software struggles with people who aren't intentionally trying to fool it it couldn't be that difficult.
anonymouse2022 5y ago
I liked the videos https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJ27qSJeFixTauJEMJ76vsw https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJ27qSJeFixTauJEMJ76vsw
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
When I read "dazzle walks," I immediately thought of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI I'll get my coat...
manicminer 5y ago
I found the write up of the Dazzle Walk itself to be a much more fascinating read http://walkspace.uk/2021/03/birmingham-dazzle-walk/ http://walkspace.uk/2021/03/birmingham-dazzle-walk/
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
For those who aren't aware of Birmingham, UK, Here's Telly Savalas impression of it from 1981 (His kind of town): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHVO1eSMFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHVO1eSMFc
- dijit 5y ago
  I didn’t recognise anything except St Martins from this video. Birmingham is in an unfortunate position in the UK- while technically it’s the second city (where London is the largest, richest and most populous), Birmingham by contrast seems deeply impoverished and constantly attempting to redesign itself. The city, thusly, has more cameras per capita than London, since crime and poverty are slightly more abundant. I was raised in neighbouring Coventry, my father was from Birmingham, as was my first girlfriend and college. Coventry was much worse than Birmingham of course, but they’re both pretty grim compared to places like Evesham, Oxford, Leamington Spa or Bath
  - dougSF70 5y ago
    I remember the great floods at Leakington Spa. Terrible.
MrNosy 5y ago
Thanks for sharing this here chippy. I wrote this! Great to see all the interesting comments. Here is a bit more psychogeography, from Russia. There will be more coming https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30736147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30736147

59 points by chippy 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

danboarder 5y ago

This reminds me of the makeup art and privacy activist projects used to confuse facial recognition camera systems a couple years ago, here is one example (of many): Hiding in plain sight: activists don camouflage to beat Met surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/01/privacy-campaigners-dazzle-camouflage-met-police-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/01/privacy-campai...

gumby 5y ago
Early in the article the idea of camouflage makeup is mentioned, but this is IMHO more interesting: first, going the opposite way (making yourself actually invisible to the infrastructure, not just unrecognizable). Then the bulk of the article is about revisiting the idea of invisibility (how certain people are socially invisible) which is also fascinating.

bob66 5y ago

dkdbejwi383 5y ago

I've always been fascinated by psychogeography, but I feel like I might be too dim to really grasp it. It always feels like a particularly abstract, intellectual thing that people who (appear to be) much smarter than me seem to understand but which I cannot.

lqet 5y ago
Hm, after reading the Wikipedia article on psychogeography, I am not sure whether it is satire: > Psychogeography is the exploration of urban environments that emphasizes interpersonal connections to places and arbitrary routes, and follows a loosely defined urban practice known as the dérive. It was developed by members of the Letterist International and Situationist International, which were revolutionary groups influenced by Marxist and anarchist theory as well as the attitudes and methods of Dadaists and Surrealists. In 1955, Guy Debord defined psychogeography as "the study of the precise laws and specific effects of the geographical environment, consciously organized or not, on the emotions and behavior of individuals." > The first published discussion of psychogeography was in the Lettrist journal Potlatch (1954), which included a 'Psychogeographical Game of the Week': Depending on what you are after, choose an area, a more or less populous city, a more or less lively street. Build a house. Furnish it. Make the most of its decoration and surroundings. Choose the season and the time. Gather together the right people, the best records and drinks. Lighting and conversation must, of course, be appropriate, along with the weather and your memories. If your calculations are correct, you should find the outcome satisfying.
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  I'm still not convinced it's an actual thing, and not just a pretentious way to say "going for a walk"
- anon_123g987 5y ago
  If satire, it's hilarious. If not, it's ridiculous. The same people will take it seriously either way, so there's not much difference.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  The first published discussion sounds like satire (or a hyperbolized example), but the description given by Guy Debord seems pretty straight forward to me. If I were try to put it even simpler, I would define it as: "Psychogeography is the study of why people enjoy, or behave in certain ways in, certain surroundings over others". That being said, the fact that Debord claims both that psychogeography is the study of "precise laws" and that psychogeography is "charmingly vague", seems conflicting.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

How do they even know that their camouflage foils the surveillance cameras? Ok for the passport example with the missing head, but if you just walk the streets?

tgv 5y ago
If I were to build a facial recognition system, I wouldn't use color input. Doesn't e.g. Apple's facial recognition use infrared?
chippy 5y ago
It's also about that classic social engineering tactic to blend in. Who would even notice a beige middle-aged woman anywhere, just like a high-vis and clipboard will avoid most suspicions.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  I don't think that would work for AI based systems.
tjpnz 5y ago
Given how facial recognition software struggles with people who aren't intentionally trying to fool it it couldn't be that difficult.

anonymouse2022 5y ago

I liked the videos https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJ27qSJeFixTauJEMJ76vsw https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJ27qSJeFixTauJEMJ76vsw

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

When I read "dazzle walks," I immediately thought of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI I'll get my coat...

manicminer 5y ago

I found the write up of the Dazzle Walk itself to be a much more fascinating read http://walkspace.uk/2021/03/birmingham-dazzle-walk/ http://walkspace.uk/2021/03/birmingham-dazzle-walk/

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

For those who aren't aware of Birmingham, UK, Here's Telly Savalas impression of it from 1981 (His kind of town): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHVO1eSMFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHVO1eSMFc

dijit 5y ago
I didn’t recognise anything except St Martins from this video. Birmingham is in an unfortunate position in the UK- while technically it’s the second city (where London is the largest, richest and most populous), Birmingham by contrast seems deeply impoverished and constantly attempting to redesign itself. The city, thusly, has more cameras per capita than London, since crime and poverty are slightly more abundant. I was raised in neighbouring Coventry, my father was from Birmingham, as was my first girlfriend and college. Coventry was much worse than Birmingham of course, but they’re both pretty grim compared to places like Evesham, Oxford, Leamington Spa or Bath
- dougSF70 5y ago
  I remember the great floods at Leakington Spa. Terrible.

MrNosy 5y ago

Thanks for sharing this here chippy. I wrote this! Great to see all the interesting comments. Here is a bit more psychogeography, from Russia. There will be more coming https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30736147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30736147